49 replies to this topic

[Tomas_LGN]

unkindest, on 24 August 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

This approach is wicked. When you buff only one single tank removing it's weak spot it's just wrong. What about german tank's hatches? What about IS-3,4,6's roof suffering of 3 caliber rule? What about obj 268 with his weak visor? What about T-95?

 

Changing only one tank is just wrong.

 

This wouldnt be removing it but making it a bit stronger...u could still pen it with AP on most tier X and easily with Gold.

And yes I'd also like a buff to this tank as it makes no sense that IS-7 and IS-4 should have the same traverse when they have better armor...

[unkindest]

tomas898989_2014, on 24 August 2015 - 11:04 PM, said:

And yes I'd also like a buff to this tank as it makes no sense that IS-7 and IS-4 should have the same traverse when they have better armor...

 

It makes perfect sense. IS-7 has probably the worst terrain resistance coefficients in the game. Developers did a lot to balance IS-7 so that It wouldn't be impossible to fight against. If only historical data was applied, the IS-7 would be as mobile as T-54 (if not faster) with armor that no gun can pen (developers say that would be a tier 12 (!) tank then).  

 

T110E5 on the contrary is a blueprint project, but moreover the one in the game differs from the actual one. E5 is only one stage of T110 development, should look like that:

 

 

The one in the game is just a buffed M-103 version, which was the final idea for the T110 with turret before the project was closed.

 

tomas898989_2014, on 24 August 2015 - 11:04 PM, said:

 

This wouldnt be removing it but making it a bit stronger...u could still pen it with AP on most tier X and easily with Gold. 

 

So you think It's normal when IS-3 (tier 8) pens IS-4 (tier 10!) in the turret roof with regular AP? It's just not all know about 3 caliber rule, they see red and don't shoot. On the contrary, whenever I have a chance to shoot IS-4 in the roof while having appropriate gun, I take that shot. Oh and if IS-4 decided to face hug me, that's just awesome.

Edited by unkindest, 25 August 2015 - 09:35 AM.

[romsitsa]

Imho this buff would mean nothing serious. Hull and turret sides remain butter and face off it will be prammo time.

 

A

[ScorpioNIK_003]

niounia, on 24 August 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

one of the most intelligent e05 is the one that scorpion nick drives  majority however are full of air to make the tank lighter  

 

Eheh my E5 took 1600 battles to become intelligent

 

I like E5 as it is, I think it's a great tank but it's not easy to master. A buff to turret/hull traverse to 30 degrees would be ok

[Sariel_]

romsitsa, on 25 August 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

Imho this buff would mean nothing serious. Hull and turret sides remain butter and face off it will be prammo time.

 

A

Lol? This buff means a fcking lot. The cupola and the places near gun manzlet will bounce 100x more than now and same with the lower hull plate. Now, they are easily penned by tiers 8 with AP rounds.

[romsitsa]

Tier X face off without premium ammo? When did you see something like that? They even shoot prammo into sides and back.

 

A

[Sariel_]

romsitsa, on 25 August 2015 - 10:58 PM, said:

Tier X face off without premium ammo? When did you see something like that? They even shoot prammo into sides and back.

 

A

 

Not always and my point is that most of tiers 8 or 9 will not penetrate you not like now, every tier 8 can penetrate you, some without golds and some with golds

[Tomas_LGN]

unkindest, on 25 August 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

 

It makes perfect sense. IS-7 has probably the worst terrain resistance coefficients in the game. Developers did a lot to balance IS-7 so that It wouldn't be impossible to fight against. If only historical data was applied, the IS-7 would be as mobile as T-54 (if not faster) with armor that no gun can pen (developers say that would be a tier 12 (!) tank then).  

 

T110E5 on the contrary is a blueprint project, but moreover the one in the game differs from the actual one. E5 is only one stage of T110 development, should look like that:

 

 

The one in the game is just a buffed M-103 version, which was the final idea for the T110 with turret before the project was closed.

 

 

So you think It's normal when IS-3 (tier 8) pens IS-4 (tier 10!) in the turret roof with regular AP? It's just not all know about 3 caliber rule, they see red and don't shoot. On the contrary, whenever I have a chance to shoot IS-4 in the roof while having appropriate gun, I take that shot. Oh and if IS-4 decided to face hug me, that's just awesome.

 

Yes your first point is correct, but remember this is a game and nearly every tank is different to the real life version in order to maintain balance.. They all have some sort of changes/nerfs/buffs etc to make them balanced with the other tanks and sometimes some tanks are slightly inbalanced so they are buffed or nerfed. However the IS-7 and IS-4 did not need these buffs at all. I had around 900 games on the IS-7 and 700 on the IS-4 and have played them before and after the update/buff and it is obviously not needed. However, tanks should either be buffed/nerfed like in PC version where some tanks like Conqeror, IS-7, E5 etc get better turrets in order to balance them. It isn't fair if just one tank gets buffed and the others don't when it doesn't need it...

Regarding the IS-4 roof, it's not a major weakspot at all (multiple times smaller and harder to hit than IS-3 and E5 cupola!!) and it still has the best turret in the game immune to all guns frontally (except for a milimetre weakspot)

You say? you think its normal that the IS-4 can get penned by IS-3? YES it is. because the IS-3 has to be above him and u can pen most tanks roof when you are above them, even IS-7 etc. When you are in the IS-3 you can't even pen the IS-4 in the roof because the IS-3 isn't tall enough.

On the other hand, the E5 can get penned in the lower plate easily by tier 8s(!!) and the cupola is also easily pennable. This means, in IS-4 or IS-7 you can fight a tier 8 without losing any health (if you are smart and can angle!) meanwhile in the E5 you will probably get shot two or three times...

[JoseOlas]

Buffffff

[unkindest]

tomas898989_2014, on 26 August 2015 - 06:02 PM, said:

Regarding the IS-4 roof, it's not a major weakspot at all (multiple times smaller and harder to hit than IS-3 and E5 cupola!!) and it still has the best turret in the game immune to all guns frontally (except for a milimetre weakspot)

You say? you think its normal that the IS-4 can get penned by IS-3? YES it is. because the IS-3 has to be above him and u can pen most tanks roof when you are above them, even IS-7 etc. When you are in the IS-3 you can't even pen the IS-4 in the roof because the IS-3 isn't tall enough.

On the other hand, the E5 can get penned in the lower plate easily by tier 8s(!!) and the cupola is also easily pennable. This means, in IS-4 or IS-7 you can fight a tier 8 without losing any health (if you are smart and can angle!) meanwhile in the E5 you will probably get shot two or three times...

 

I'll make myself more clear: the thickness of IS-4 roof is 30 mm. The whole plate on the roof - 30 mm. Now, the 3 caliber rule: if you have a gun which caliber is 3 times bigger than a thickness of the armor - there will be NO ricochet. It doesn't matter where you are with that gun: above or below IS-4's roof - IF you hit the roof, your round will never bounce. Never ever. 

 

You see, most people don't know about this rule, they see red, they don't shoot. But It doesn't matter if the roof of IS-4 is red or not visible, all you need is to hit it with appropriate gun.

 

So here is an example (positions are not exact, just for illustration): 

 

 

Dead Rail map, was penning IS-4 with my M-103 with every shot with AP. All that was visible of him for me was his turret. He peek-a-booed from that building 3 times, 3 he times was shot and penned. He did not come for the 4th one unfortunately. I was obviously below that IS-4. That was no luck (you never lucky 3 times in a row).

 

Moreover, If an IS-4 is face-hugging you while you are with your E-100 or JgPz E-100, feel free to use HE on his roof, you'll inflict full HE damage possible.

 

On the contrary, the tit on E5's turret is very bouncy. You not only need to hit it, which is already a challenge, you need to pen it, which is even more challenging.

Edited by unkindest, 26 August 2015 - 08:06 PM.

[Sariel_]

unkindest, on 26 August 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

 

I'll make myself more clear: the thickness of IS-4 roof is 30 mm. The whole plate on the roof - 30 mm. Now, the 3 caliber rule: if you have a gun which caliber is 3 times bigger than a thickness of the armor - there will be NO ricochet. It doesn't matter where you are with that gun: above or below IS-4's roof - IF you hit the roof, your round will never bounce. Never ever. 

 

You see, most people don't know about this rule, they see red, they don't shoot. But It doesn't matter if the roof of IS-4 is red or not visible, all you need is to hit it with appropriate gun.

 

So here is an example (positions are not exact, just for illustration): 

 

 

Dead Rail map, was penning IS-4 with my M-103 with every shot with AP. All that was visible of him for me was his turret. He peek-a-booed from that building 3 times, 3 he times was shot and penned. He did not come for the 4th one unfortunately. I was obviously below that IS-4. That was no luck (you never lucky 3 times in a row).

 

Moreover, If an IS-4 is face-hugging you while you are with your E-100 or JgPz E-100, feel free to use HE on his roof, you'll inflict full HE damage possible.

 

On the contrary, the tit on E5's turret is very bouncy. You not only need to hit it, which is already a challenge, you need to pen it, which is even more challenging.

 

but it is 100x easier to hit the fcking hatch than the roof...when u r smaller than IS-4 u dont have chance

[TrolLoLX]

unkindest, on 26 August 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

 

 

 

Moreover, If an IS-4 is face-hugging you while you are with your E-100 or JgPz E-100, feel free to use HE on his roof, you'll inflict full HE damage possible.

HE doesn't overmatch, so you would do better with APs in this situation.

[jylpah]

If one looks the stats, E5 is one of the better performing Tier X heavies. I collected top 50 WR for each heavy and E5 has 3rd highest WR for a top 50 player. I chose this metric to reflect the tank's performance in good hands. To avoid outliners I chose top 50 wr and not top 1. Maus and FV have only 500 players so a top 100 player for those are tanks would have been likely a less-skilled player vs other tanks' top 100.

 

E100: 68.81%

Maus: 62.61%

FV215b: 66.37%

IS-4: 69.06%

IS-7: 67.87%

T110E5: 68.78%

 

This analysis does not take into account of tanks current balance, but its performance over its lifetime.

 

Edited by jylpah, 28 August 2015 - 10:29 AM.

[Sariel_]

jylpah, on 28 August 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

If one looks the stats, E5 is one of the better performing Tier X heavies. I collected top 50 WR for each heavy and E5 has 3rd highest WR for a top 50 player. I chose this metric to reflect the tank's performance in good hands. To avoid outliners I chose top 50 wr and not top 1. Maus and FV have only 500 players so a top 100 player for those are tanks would have been likely a less-skilled player vs other tanks' top 100.

 

E100: 68.81%

Maus: 62.61%

FV215b: 66.37%

IS-4: 69.06%

IS-7: 67.87%

T110E5: 68.78%

 

This analysis does not take into account of tanks current balance, but its performance over its lifetime.

 

Winrate doesnt tell you anything.

[jylpah]

Sariel_, on 28 August 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

Winrate doesnt tell you anything.

 

over large number of battles it tells everything about player's or tank's performance. But if you disagree, could you please describe other metric that better describes tank's performance? Average damage? Average kills? What?

[Sariel_]

jylpah, on 29 August 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

 

over large number of battles it tells everything about player's or tank's performance. But if you disagree, could you please describe other metric that better describes tank's performance? Average damage? Average kills? What?

It depends on the top 100 players, because they are different by every tank. Only players which own E5 know what I am talking about. Tomatoes just turn the turret, no aiming and its penetration. The hull is paper and hatch too. So you dont have any option how to bounce something.

[jylpah]

Sariel_, on 29 August 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

It depends on the top 100 players, because they are different by every tank. Only players which own E5 know what I am talking about. Tomatoes just turn the turret, no aiming and its penetration. The hull is paper and hatch too. So you dont have any option how to bounce something.

 

I have E5, but it's my only tier X heavy so hard to compare. I think such an observation is like due to extensive gold ammo usage at tier X. And if it would have impact on E5's performance, it would show up in statistics like the the WR I quoted above.

[Sariel_]

jylpah, on 29 August 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

 

I have E5, but it's my only tier X heavy so hard to compare. I think such an observation is like due to extensive gold ammo usage at tier X. And if it would have impact on E5's performance, it would show up in statistics like the the WR I quoted above.

You dont need gold ammo for E5, it is sooo big paper, u can penetrate it easily with all tiers X and most of the IX and VIII with normal ammo, with gold ammo every tank in tier 8-10 will penetrate E5 to lower plate or cupola

[Hero600]

Sariel_, on 29 August 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

It depends on the top 100 players, because they are different by every tank. Only players which own E5 know what I am talking about. Tomatoes just turn the turret, no aiming and its penetration. The hull is paper and hatch too. So you dont have any option how to bounce something.

 

well, reaching the E5 means you played the M103, which means you already know how to deal with the weak-ish armor.

E5 right now is balanced, if you wanna buff a tank try the iS4, and I say if

[jylpah]

Hero600, on 30 August 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

 

well, reaching the E5 means you played the M103, which means you already know how to deal with the weak-ish armor.

E5 right now is balanced, if you wanna buff a tank try the iS4, and I say if

 

based on data I would say buff Maus. IS-4 is one of the best performing tier X heavies.