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Newbee on German heavies. What am I doning wrong?


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arthurrietveld #1 Posted 19 November 2015 - 02:24 PM

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Hi

 

I'm a newbee in this game (400 battles) playing mostly the German heavy line. I have a feeling that I can't get a break in this game. I read all the basics about sidescraping ect and this improved my game a bit, but not by much. I'm on the vk36.01 now and apart from it being a bit better than the vk 30 and the DW2 I had before, I have the feeling that my nickname should be; "the sitting duck".


 

A lot of games go like this: 70% of the time I'm low tier and either my teams rushes in and we win without me firing 1 shot OR they rush in, get killed and within a minute I'm 1 vs 5 in a low tier heavy without armor. Even if we win and I manage to reach the heat, I have the feeling everyone picks at me because I'm a 2 shot kill. And than we win 6 to 0, but guess who's the 1 that's killed. (me). If I'm high tier it's not much better because even then my armor is useless and my alfa too low.


 

My winrate is 42% but I don't have the feeling that I can contribute anything in the battles to raise this. Sometimes I notice that my team just sucks. e.g. camping with top tier heavies or AFK. But how can they suck but run tier 8 tanks? I tried the Russian line now to compare, because the IS tanks always kill me (so I want one), but my current A20 is just as worse. The only weapon I have is speed, but within 1 shot they damage my tracks and I'm a sitting duck (again)


 

Is this common to the grind to the better German tanks or do I just suck?


Edited by arthurrietveld, 19 November 2015 - 03:00 PM.


Adamgamer2004_gamez #2 Posted 19 November 2015 - 03:41 PM

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E 100 isn't all that. If you want a full heavy go for the IS7/ IS4 i must say. Is7 has angles and punchy gun but the 4 has more side armour. If you want a beefy tank get the T110E3. I recommend the IS It's armour is troll You won't like some of them stock its normal.  But if you want to carry on here's a few tips.

1.Angle between like 45°

2. Keep moving while reloading

3. You are not the boss

Tell me which type of tank you like I'll reveal the answer ☺ hehe



Adamgamer2004_gamez #3 Posted 19 November 2015 - 03:45 PM

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View Postarthurrietveld, on 19 November 2015 - 02:24 PM,


 

Is this common to the grind to the better German tanks or do I just suck?

Nah you don't suck. It depends on your strengths and playstyle on which tank you do better in. I like the T40 line. I suck in tanks like the ERM dunno. You just need to master the playstyle.



arthurrietveld #4 Posted 19 November 2015 - 04:22 PM

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I tried mediums, but I think i'm just not skilled enough to use them. I constanly run into things while trying to circle. Do you use sniper mide while circling? I like sniping, but I find it hard to find targits. There's always something in the way. Perhaps I'll tri Russian. On the other hand, they all have one. I'm almost up fot the tiger. Let's see id it improves.

Spike1941 #5 Posted 19 November 2015 - 04:51 PM

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Watch more videos on the tank you're driving.

 

Like this one from Hughbert Jass:



Adamgamer2004_gamez #6 Posted 19 November 2015 - 07:46 PM

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Mediums turret traverse will help. Use their speed flank and use RoF tier 10 ones have apcr as default ammo

Adamgamer2004_gamez #7 Posted 19 November 2015 - 07:51 PM

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Copy hughbert mass try to. Spike the for suggesting the vid

arthurrietveld #8 Posted 19 November 2015 - 08:15 PM

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Tonight I'm low tier 100% of the time. I don't do bad looking at the results though. Some manage to do less than 200 damage with tier 8. Are they  wankink while playing or what? 

IrmaBecx #9 Posted 20 November 2015 - 04:20 AM

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Hy, and welcome to the forum!

You're not doing anything wrong, you're just new. The german tech tree is the hardest to play, the german tanks are often pretty crap until you get them fully researched and 100% crew. Don't sweat it, you will learn. I started out playing german Tank Destroyers and Heavy tanks, and my stats show it, I'm not even 50% win rate yet after over 5000 games. It is my firm belief, however, that playing the german tech tree will make you a better player in the long run. When I go back and play the tanks I used to suck in, I do much better with more experience and understanding of the game.

 

 Being bottom tier is something we all have to learn to deal with, try to remember in those cases it's not your job to carry the game, but to support the higher tiers. Concentrate on not getting shot and do as much damage as you can, that pretty much sums it up. When I was starting out and realised charging forward blindly wasn't the way to win, I started following a higher tier tank or someone who seemed to know what they were doing. Two tanks are better than one, I figured, and that works up to a point. If you're serious about learning how to play, there is two things you can do. One is obviously watching Blitz videos on youtube, I learned a lot from Bushka on Blitz and Hughbet Jass. The other thing is, when you get killed, follow the other players on your team and watch what they're doing instead of going back to the garage. If they are good, pick up and learn what they are doing. If they suck, try to learn from their mistakes. Every game is an opportunity to learn. Some teams just can't be helped, but don't focus on that. Focus on what you did wrong or what the enemy did right. Don't succumb to the feeling that you're going to lose just because your team has one less heavy tank or whatever, there are always opportunities. You can't rely on favourable matchmaking to win.

 

Also, hanging around the forum is another great opportunity to learn stuff. This forum and youtube are easily responsible for any increase in win rate I have experienced. And since you like the heavy tanks (I do too), here is a Bushka video on how to do the Heavy:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=Y07GcbPiZEU

 

Keep at it, Kill them all, Carry harder, and see you out in the field!


Edited by IrmaBecx, 20 November 2015 - 04:22 AM.

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Philholt101 #10 Posted 20 November 2015 - 04:46 PM

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Hi and welcome to the forums. I've got to agree with what's being said on here about the German tech tree it's definitely not the easiest to play, but for some reason lots of new players seem to head straight for it (me included). It's probably the reputation of the tiger and king tiger in real life. My choice if I had it again would be to play the Russian heavies first they're more forgiving. But don't make the mistake most seem to including me again and rush up,the tiers thinking bigger guns and more armour mean you've a better chance of surviving because you haven't you'll die more often as your going to come up against really good players in even bigger gunned tanks. I'm 1800 games in and still consider myself a noob, I got to Tiger2 in less than a 1000 games and no way should I have been in tier 8. My advice would be drop back down to tier 4 or 5 watch the vids on YouTube and really learn the game. If you want to stick with the German line I would go back to one of my favourite tanks the VK30.01H mount the waffe and carry a few rounds of premium for when your bottom tier and enjoy the game. 

 



martindogger #11 Posted 21 November 2015 - 10:10 AM

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View PostPhilholt101, on 20 November 2015 - 05:46 PM, said:

But don't make the mistake most seem to including me again and rush up,the tiers thinking bigger guns and more armour mean you've a better chance of surviving because you haven't you'll die more often as your going to come up against really good players in even bigger gunned tanks. I'm 1800 games in and still consider myself a noob, I got to Tiger2 in less than a 1000 games and no way should I have been in tier 8. 

  ^^ this.

 

Pick another line to play and use it to work on other skills too. US tanks are mobile and are solid tanks that teach you hull down tactics which means exposing only the turret.

Playing other lines also means you can learn the maps by heart. I know most of the good and bad spots. I know how far I need to drive back to get cover when shot at from a certain direction. This obviously helps my gameplay as I can react quickly. 

 

Last one, try to read the game. Where can I be effective? Even when bottom tier, you can still play your part. 


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TGZGunner #12 Posted 21 November 2015 - 03:32 PM

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Hi arthurrietveld,

Your not on your own, all you say could actually be me.. I have experienced all the same gameplay as yourself. matching me with tanks always 2 tiers higher than the tank im in, I thought the same also and went down the German heavy's route, currently driving a tier 8 Tiger (P) and Ive got the best gun.. but Im still a sitting duck when it puts me up against a Russian T54 or IS-8.. ive even been took down in 20 seconds flat by a tier 7 comet who was so fast i was dead in quick time.

 

You are not doing anything wrong, its simply the luck of the matchmaking process, I get matched almost 100% of the time with 2 tiers higher than me, and most of the time im at the bottom rank of my team. Not only that it seems that it puts me with players who are hell bent on dieing as fast as they can, talk about suicide, they run flat out right into the battle without waiting for their team mates (i want to help but im so slow to the battle I cant make the difference because they simply wont wait for me to catch up). and ditto about the time it gives you some good team mates, Im so slow to catch up i always miss out on the fun of nailing that 1 kill. By the time ive got to the battle they are all celebrating 'affirmative' then im back to the garage without firing a shot.. haha.

 

Just try to relax and keep doing what you are doing you will get better with practise, and please listen to IrmaBecx comments above.. he speaks a lot of good advice, Im grateful of players like that who are willing to help with advice and help.



arthurrietveld #13 Posted 22 November 2015 - 04:32 PM

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I've got a T34 now and it's better. In the tiger now also saving for the long 88. Died in seconds in some tier 9 games. But also survived one without a scratch because all tier 9's were shouting each-other. Even killed a tier 9 or two. Sometimes you need dome some luck right.

Edited by arthurrietveld, 23 November 2015 - 02:20 PM.


Baldrick_2014 #14 Posted 22 November 2015 - 08:14 PM

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Hi,

I also had problems when I bought Tiger I and P, after some battles in them (most of them really bad) I realized I needed a bit of more training with german heavies and came back to Vk36 which I had played as "I have to if I want a Tiger..." but without using it as a real "Tiger trainer". Right now I'm enjoying VK36 a lot (although in most battles being bottom tier). It's not very easy tank but I would recommend to play it for a bit longer, I'm sure at the end you'll like it!

And maybe you could also play in german med line? It's not the same as heavies but hulls are also like paper boxes :popcorn:

And a good suggestion IrmaBecx did is following battles after being shot down instead of going to the garage....doing that when in IV and V tiers I learnt that KV1 is not invincible! (mainly playing with german meds)

 

 


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Dassem_ #15 Posted 23 November 2015 - 12:44 AM

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yeah, you suck, as well you should! ;)  (anything blow 48% wr suck more or less) Working tier 7 with only 700 matches under your belt, thats madness! :unsure:

 

my tips:

- Learn the best strategies for all maps. This usually takes a lot of time, and youll never stop improving

- Follow the lead. Only go crazy when youre sure your team are absolutely clueless. Go with the other heavies.

- Use cover. A lot. Never move unless you know exactly where your next cover is, and that you can reach it. Never get caught out without cover. Use it between shots.

- Always use sniper mode when shooting. Wait for reticle to shrink and place your shot at weak spots. German tanks have good guns for accuracy!

- german heavies are good for angling, and difficult to sidescrape in the low/mid tiers.

- install armor inspector, find your tank and see how it looks to those one tier above you. learn exactly what you should expose and at what angle, to max armour efficiency.

 

German heavies are the most versatile, they do everything ok, but does not excel at anything. With ruski tanks, you sidescrape. With US, you hull down. With british, you just sit there and bounce. Germans, pick the one that suits the terrain and situation. imo this makes them the most difficult to master fully, as they rely on you knowing the map/terrain, your tanks strengths, and your enemies strengths.

 

But most importantly, be a teamplayer! If you dont take your teammates actions into consideration, you may as well not be there.

 


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IrmaBecx #16 Posted 23 November 2015 - 03:22 AM

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Many good points here, I like the one about playing the VK 36.01 a bit more. Looking at your stats, that's actually your best higher tier tank. It has the 88 mm L/56, which is a pretty capable weapon, even against tier VIII opponents, It also has a pretty thick slab of armour up front that can bounce a shot or two if angled. I remember liking it a lot when I played it, but sold it immediately to get to the Tiger, of course. People call ot the "Baby Tiger", and that is for a good reason, I'm sure it has more to teach you, and it's a tier lower so you won't  have to deal with tier IX tanks anymore.

 

Also, remember WR isn't the only stat. The most important stat to me is doing damage. If I have top damage for my team and we lost, I don't care. I did as best I could. If i have done damage exceeding one of their heavy tanks and one or two kills and we lose, I don't care, at least I did my part. Concentrating on damage instead of kills will make you a better team player, and it will also help your survival rate, because you won't expose yourself to fire trying to get that last shot in. This is called "tunnel visioning", when you focus on one tank before you, and forget everything that's happening around you, and it's a hard habit to break. I still do it after 5000 games.

 

Patience is also a virtue in this game. If you stay in cover and take safe shots, most of the time your opponents will get frustrated and do something stupid like exposing themselves too much. You see this all the time. The one that stays focused and just keeps playing peek-a-boom will be the one you should watch out for. The longer you can keep an opponent occupied, the more time you give your team to come and help you. (Yes, I know, but it does happen once in a while.) Also, try to take your time when aiming. German guns are famous for their accuracy, so learn to use it properly; aim for weak spots, shoot drive wheels to destroy the tracks and leave them exposed to more shots, hit the engine, fuel tanks and ammo racks to set fires and do extra damage (fire damage is credited to you if you set the fire, if they burn down completely, you get the kill) learn to hit that lower front glacis plate, even if you can get a penetration center mass. There are skills you will be glad to have learned in higher tiers.

 

Above all, keep at it, always try to learn, know your limitations and set realistic goals for yourself. One day it will all klick for you. I remember when I finally started getting it, coincidentally, it was in the Tiger. :)


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IrmaBecx #17 Posted 23 November 2015 - 03:37 AM

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Also, one final point about mediums. Yes, they are harder to play when you are new, but they can also teach you a lot, and I have only recently began to realise that. I would recommend you check out the Panzer IV D. (Both Bushka and Hughbert Jass have great videos on it.) It is a very well balanced vehicle for its' tier, and it just struck me it's not entirely unlike the Tiger I. (The "Toddler-Tiger"?) Flat so-so armour, great gun with good penetration and damage numbers. Get the top gun, 7,5 cm L/43, load up a few premium rounds and go hunt some KV-1s.

 

Learning to face a Hetzer, Matilda or KV-1 in the Pz IV D will teach you pretty much everything you need to know in order to face tier IX heavy tanks and tank destroyers in the Tiger I. It's scary at first, but when you have done it a few times you start to relax and can concentrate better. You'll learn to aim for weak spots, use mobility to your advantage, and using cover and not trading hit points. If you trade HP with a KV-1, you're going to lose. Still, I take them down all the time. 

 

This tank will also make you a huge pile of credits pretty fast, as long as you don't go overboard with the APCR and consumables. It has kept my tier VIII and IX tanks in business for a long time now.


Edited by IrmaBecx, 23 November 2015 - 03:58 AM.

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Ahashverosh #18 Posted 23 November 2015 - 11:35 AM

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I find VK36 to be a great tank. It is quite fast for a heavy. And it can bounce a lot since it has spaced armour in the rear part on its sides - which is perfect for side scraping. What gun are you using: 88 or Waffe? I personally find Waffe to be a better choice: it does less damage per shot but is more precise, reloads faster and above all has a higher penetration.
Be aggressive when top tier, side scrape, and move between the shots. Against higher tier heavies and TD - stay in the back and snipe (Waffe is great for this role) or flank if practicable.
So don't quit this tank like - if you picked it yourself. Some tanks will be hard to play - like Tiger - you will probably find. But you will learn. Read forums and watch YouTube videos on the tanks you play. Good luck!

IrmaBecx #19 Posted 23 November 2015 - 12:41 PM

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I know you didn't mean me, Ahashverosh, but I actually prefer the 88 on the VK 3601. You'll be using that to begin with on the Tiger anyway, so it's good to get some practice in. Either way, in higher tiers guns tend to move away from the type the Waffe represents to less ROF higher alpha weapons.

 

(Love this thread, so much good stuff!)


Edited by IrmaBecx, 23 November 2015 - 12:41 PM.

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Mockney_piers #20 Posted 24 November 2015 - 09:08 AM

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To echo the good advice, you're having bad games because you're still very inexperienced.

 

I don't think I was a remotely half decent player until at least 3000 battles in, so you've rushed tier 7 too quickly. Loads of people do it because they think the next tank up will be stronger, but the design of the game is such taht tanks are supposed to be balanced at every tier.

Hence top tier you'll be ok, bottom tier you'll struggle until you hit tier X or buy a pz B2.

But in tier X you need to be a really good player, of these scenarios, go for the B2!!!!!

 

Yes teams often suck and abandon you or melt away, but you're probably failing them more than they're failing you, stats don't lie.

Again this is simply to be expected at <800 battles.

 

My advice is grind a few different lines, hell, all of them up to tier 4.

This will bed in the map/strategic awareness of key chokepoints, hull down spots, good sidescraping spots, LoS with gun depression etc that need to be instinctive to be a good player.

Then decide on 2 or 3 you liked best and get them up to tier 6.

 

Of your current crop, DW2 is a fantastic overpowered tank if you really are sidescraping and angling and shooting plenty of apcr (bought with silver).

Vk30 basically playes the same but without the need for prammo. and vk36 is a superlative hull down second line support tank, flanker, better than the tiger 1 imo.

 

I recently went back to get better stats in the DW2, from stats similar to yours from when I first played the game, I'm now in top 100 by my 100th game, showing it really was me that was doing it wrong first time around, not my teams.


Edited by Mockney_piers, 24 November 2015 - 09:23 AM.





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