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Hype 59 and Light tank Laments

IrmaDrivesTanks tank philosophy Type-59 T-54 Lightweight Light tanks

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IrmaBecx #1 Posted 27 September 2016 - 10:08 PM

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This was me a few days ago:

 

View PostIrmaBecx, on 22 September 2016 - 09:09 PM, said:

So it's looking like I'm going to miss out on the Type-59 again this time, and the reason is very simple:

 

I can't afford it. 

 

Only eight days to go, and I haven't received my student loans yet - likely it will be another 10 days or so, and so the opportunity will be gone.

 

Mind you, this is an opportunity for me, because I like quirky and unloved tanks. Your average player I wouldn't recommend this tank to, because I believe they won't get their moneys' worth playing it.

 

The Type 59 is not a bad tank; in fact it's very, very balanced. For me, as a Medium and Light tank driver, it would make sense, because it could replace many of the OP Russian Meds which are super boring to play anyway they're so balanced.

 

But with the new OP Russian Lights in game, I had to grind the T-34, which lead to the T-34-85 when I realised I had grinded too much, and that will of course turn into a T-44 and then a T-54 before long. My LTTB will turn into a T-54 Lightweight, which will also turn into a T-54 and then a T-62A and an Object 140.

 

So with my garage filling up with all those blasted OP Russian vehicles, there really isn't any need for me to replace them all with another tier VIII Premium; especially not since the T-54 Ltwt in all probability is the way better tank, and I already started throwing my credits at them.

 

So it's a shame, because I really do want the Hype 59 even though it's not as good as everyone expected, because it's still a nice drive, and it's not uncompetitive in it's tier. Also, it is of course one of the absolutely most essential and important Gold Noob Elitist tanks.

 

As it is, however, it's a no-go. It's simply too expensive, and it has hit me at the completely wrong time.

 

See you guys around this time next year...

 

So yeah, instead of buying food this week, and next week ( I am not joking), I shelled out the horrendously high price for the Type 59 just now. I still think the above is perhaps the best advice about the Type, but I did want it anyway, and I am not sorry at all.

 

And I'll tell you why:

 

Because it's a great tank. The fact remains you won't have to train the crew or grind any modules, and its' performance, remember, is measured against the very best tanks in the game. That said, the Type 59 is not an easy drive, and this is actually on account of the facts stated above; in other words precisely because it is a Premium tank.

 

Premiums take longer to master, because you won't be spending all that time playing it with maybe half the upgrades and really, really learn how the tank moves, where you can get gun depression, what angles bounce, and so on. The fact boring stuff can be really educational should come as no surprise to anyone.

 

The most "stock" you will ever drive a Premium is without equipment and rations, and you will of course have an easier time right from the start with the actual driving, but when you compare a Russian Medium to the Type 59, you are most often comparing it to a tank you know pretty much in and out. I am sure people who drove their Type 59 more than they drove their OP Russian Mediums are pretty few.

 

The Lightweight Sports-model I mentioned above is not the better tank because it is a T-54 - likely the stronkest tank in the game, but because it is a Light tank. It can do things that Medium tanks can't do because of this, and for this reason that comparison is also slightly unfair. Still, for the overwhelming majority, the Lightweight will be the better choice. Or maybe the T-44. Really, unless you really, really want to drive the Type 59 specifically, I cannot recommend it at all, because you will invariably be disappointed in any other scenario.

 

I'll say it again: if you want to drive the Type 59 for any other reason than that it is in fact the Chinese Premium tier VIII Medium, you will be disappointed. It's not a complete monster brawler, it's not going to pen every other tank in the game, you won't COD OP Russian Mediums in it, and it will not make you or anyone else huge, huge piles of credits. It's not going to happen. Don't buy it.

 

The package deal rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but for me, that actually made sense too. You may not have any use for 6K gold, but I threw some of it at my LTTB to finish off that grind, because I just can't deal with all the Light tank haters out there right now.

 

Ever since the last update, I have been hearing more and more complaining in game about the team, about people being noobs, and the level of abuse is greater than I have seen in a while.

 

And it's no surprise. The exact same thing happened when the NGL were introduced; people were helplessly watching the game change completely around them, and they couldn't figure out how to deal with the new threats. Instead, they blamed everyone from noobs to Wargaming, and of course their fellow players got the brunt of it.

 

In the T-54 Lightweight, I can play more like a Medium tank; I can use the same attack lines, and I can deal with the same threats without losing too many hitpoints. Light tanks are tricky to play, but they are extremely good at putting thought into action, like Bushka likes to point out. And that's why I like them. A tank philosopher who doesn't drive Light tanks isn't a tank philosopher; it's that simple.

 

And herein lies the problem - because most players don't understand light tank tactics, they aren't able to make the most of having a Light tank doing its' job on their team. All you can do is light up the targets for them and try to swallow their insults. The see you driving off in some random direction, they don't see you are flanking or trying to go someplace useful, they'll just call you a moron coward noob.

 

So with some gold thrown at it, I may now own the best tier VIII Medium in the game fully kitted out and the very exotic and capable Type 59.

 

A comparison will be forthcoming as soon as I grind the 700.000 credits needed to fit equipment on the Type, in the meantime I can tell you that the T-54 Lightweight does in fact struggle to pen tier VIII Heavy tanks from the front, especially if they have a pike nose.

 

It may possibly be the best tier VIII Medium, but it's still a Light tank with Camo on the move. Hit them from the sides and rear :)


Edited by IrmaBecx, 27 September 2016 - 10:13 PM.

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Von_Kie #2 Posted 27 September 2016 - 11:24 PM

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Congrats and welcome to club Hype :great:

ANARCHY!!!

(because of SP and timers)


Schlarb #3 Posted 28 September 2016 - 07:26 AM

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Sending an emergency shipment of two weeks supply of cup noodles your way Irma. You do need to eat to tank, and we can't have our philosophers starving!


 


HariKariGaryNeedsaCarry #4 Posted 28 September 2016 - 04:54 PM

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Good news is that I too am sending supplies.

 

bad news is that they are being delivered by T28 proto, so don't hold your breath.......

 

Also, do me a favour? Keep the proto, don't send it back, cheers. ;) 


harikarigaryneedsacarry_snowjag_eng.jpeg

 


samara73 #5 Posted 28 September 2016 - 08:47 PM

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I never got on with the t54lwt or the 54 either but love the lltb that has the zip that I like and as an avid collector I shunned the chronics and the type 59 Im waiting for the ac5 and the t57 as I like a bit of chunk in my trunk

 



IrmaBecx #6 Posted 29 September 2016 - 09:01 AM

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View Postsamara73, on 28 September 2016 - 10:47 PM, said:

I never got on with the t54lwt or the 54 either but love the lltb that has the zip that I like and as an avid collector I shunned the chronics and the type 59 Im waiting for the ac5 and the t57 as I like a bit of chunk in my trunk

 

 

The AC5 may be the perfect tank for you I think?? :)

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"Allez, bande de singes! Vous voulez vivre pour l'éternité?" - Ferdinand Foch, 8 Sep. 1914


HESHed_PoTaTo #7 Posted 29 September 2016 - 09:13 AM

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AC V? I do know AC IV though.

IrmaBecx #8 Posted 29 September 2016 - 09:16 AM

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I think it's only rumoured this far?

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"Allez, bande de singes! Vous voulez vivre pour l'éternité?" - Ferdinand Foch, 8 Sep. 1914


jonty_2014 #9 Posted 29 September 2016 - 09:28 AM

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Tsk, tsk, the lure of the Hype strikes again...

Empros is recruiting! Message me in game to apply.


IrmaBecx #10 Posted 29 September 2016 - 10:17 AM

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Quite so, and I really am looking forward to getting to know it. You'll be able to surmise the reason as you have read my wall-of-text on Russian OP Mediums :)

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samara73 #11 Posted 29 September 2016 - 11:20 AM

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I wish they would roll it out as Im a major British Aussie and the stuff they lent the ruskies fan 

But I also love the cosplay panther and the micro thug Kenny ...

 



HESHed_PoTaTo #12 Posted 30 September 2016 - 07:41 AM

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And there comes AC IV, knew it...

IrmaBecx #13 Posted 02 October 2016 - 07:44 AM

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"I Don't Care What Anyone Says, I Love My Communist Hype!"

 

The Short Version:

 

After almost 20 games I am rocking a comfortable 70% plus win rate. The Hype 59 is fun to drive, making lots of credits and I am not sorry I bought it.

 

The explanation:

 

You may have read my final verdict on OP Russian Meds, and if so you know I think their biggest problem is they are too balanced. They pretty much never struggle at any job except gun depression, and there is no special playstyle to learn, really. I mean staying behind cover is Medium Driving 101. So speeding towards the pole dance club on Temple, it struck me the Type 59 is exactly what the OP Russian Meds would be if they had ground resistance. 

 

Yes, the Hype is sort of sluggish, but it will do well over 50 given a bit of a run-up. This actually suits it really well, because the frontal slope and turret combo allows the Hype to hold positions kind of like a heavy tank. Straight line speed will let you get to a position not too far away and hold it for the rest of the team until they get there. Even Hype Haters will think twice about charging a tier VIII OP Russian Medium, no matter if it happens to be Chinese. And if they are tired of living and do charge, just show them your front plate and make sure all your shots hit properly; you'll be fine.

 

I mean it's no Object 140. It's no Rudy, even. You need to forget all of those daredevil OP Russian Medium-habits and play a lot more cautiously, because you don't have the speed in a hurry, and you don't have the ROF. Often the hype will donk a few shots when circling, which can be fatal. This means you need to choose your battles wisely, and concentrate on putting in as much consistent damage as you can. The Hype 59 is a formidable opponent, but it's not a carry-monster.

 

The actual strong points:

 

So let's talk about the weapon. That's a Chinese knock-off OP Russian 100mm Cold War cannon we're talking about. 250 average damage is extremely good at tier VIII; many similar tanks will have 90mm guns with 220 Alpha, but yeah, you need to deal with that ten second reload.

 

If you have played a lot of high ROF/low Alpha tanks, this will stand out as a negative for you, but you are not seeing the possibilities. Higher Alpha means you need to hit less shots to be effective, and every shot you do hit will do substantial damage. Don't hang around after firing; exit sniper mode and back up a pit, see what's going on. When the reload counter is  halfway, you can think about setting up the next shot. Is your target in the same position ten seconds later to let you take another shot? I find that is seldom the case.

 

Getting into the habit of firing like this will automatically increase your situational awareness, and it will let you do cheeky things like hide behind dead enemy tanks and short flank effectively, because you know where everyone close by is looking. It's like taking that snapshot on the move - you'll never hit it if you don't take it in the first place. AP penetration isn't fantastic - another balancing factor - and so you need to be careful you don't waste your shots. Don't be shy about using the APCR, it's worth it in the end. I carry 11 rounds myself and that seems to work for me.

 

Also let's be honest and say this is a T-54 at tier VIII, so the armour isn't exactly lacking. Face hugging still works, and a lot of tier VII opponents won't be familiar with this technique. One of the reasons long-time fans of the Type 59 are so successful is that have learned exactly how the armour needs to be positioned to be effective, and they are used to the lower speed after maybe hundreds of games. The armour is fantastic for a tier VIII Medium, it just is.

 

The bottom line:

 

So the Hype 59 is, to me, a more reasonable approximation of what a Russian Medium tank would actually be like to drive. I think Wargaming did a great job balancing this vehicle, because it still is a stronk tenk even if the Chink engine lets it down a bit. I don't know if this tank used to make hundreds and hundreds of thousands, but I would say it earns quite comfortably with moderate use of APCR, full rations and camo, provided you put in the damage, which I do.

 

And that last bit is important. I don't think your average player will have as easy a time with the Hype  as I have had; I have been working at learning all kinds of Medium playstyles for like the last 7000 games, I love Light tanks because they put thought into action the way you sometimes wish a Medium would, and I would say I have a very good grasp of the capabilities of this vehicle. I am the precise demographic this tank is aimed at.

 

So if I had gotten the Hype 59 instead of driving all those actual Russian dam OP Mediums, I am now satisfied I would have been quite happy with it. In fact, I would go as far as to say the Chinese tech tree currently offers one of the most complete and enjoyable driving experiences in the game. And I'll be completely honest and say a year ago, I was absolutely sure I would always hate Chinese tanks because they were Communist and I didn't like Cold War tanks back then.

 

As it is, I am still a happy customer, although I maintain the Type 59 is hilariously overpriced, and nothing is going to change my mind about either. For the moment, the Hype and Type 62 are pretty much the only tanks I play. Out of sixty tanks, that's saying something.

 

TLDR:

 

Yeah, Irma still really likes the Hype 59.


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The IrmaBecx School of Tank Philosophy

"Allez, bande de singes! Vous voulez vivre pour l'éternité?" - Ferdinand Foch, 8 Sep. 1914


_S_H_O_O_T_ #14 Posted 02 October 2016 - 08:43 AM

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I agree the 59 is a very fun tank,not completely overpowered..A well balanced tank.

 


IrmaBecx #15 Posted 02 October 2016 - 11:17 AM

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Here, for your amusement, is a short game showing what some carefully opportunistic gameplay can do:

 


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The IrmaBecx School of Tank Philosophy

"Allez, bande de singes! Vous voulez vivre pour l'éternité?" - Ferdinand Foch, 8 Sep. 1914


chad_fantastic #16 Posted 05 October 2016 - 09:13 AM

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So premium ammo cost were reduced, it was 4400 but down now to 4000 so yay!

 

(that 'yay' is dripping with sarcasm so you know!)



Knickerson #17 Posted 21 December 2016 - 02:31 PM

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I became a believer of the Hype this afternoon. I'll play it later tonight and see how it does with the evening crowd of tankers.
Cry "Havoc,"
And let slip the dogs of war.
 
William Shakespeare
Julius Caesar – Act 3, scene 1

MadSkunk #18 Posted 21 December 2016 - 10:44 PM

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Irma...fps 60... Are ypu employed in a cosmodromme or a faculty of IT engineering?? I am celebrating when having 40.

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