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Grille bouncing HESH from cent 7/1


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mayolicious #1 Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:49 PM

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Okay so I shot a Grille in the turret area and got 'That one didn't go through'.

 

Is this possible?

 

Can someone test this in a training room with me some time because really want to understand how this is possible. I've had issues with HESH before (see old thread about E100) but never this bad


 


fivasim #2 Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:52 PM

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If you hit the gun barrel it is possible that no damage will be dealt

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eliasdepelias #3 Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:57 PM

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or not penetrating and doing 100 splash...

or passing through the small area bewteen shield and carriage...

I have had 152 mm T30 pramma bouncing of the back of an RU...



xFluffyDemon #4 Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:58 PM

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What about AP from a IS7 not pen a Leo 1 hull?

_Biggles_ #5 Posted 19 December 2016 - 01:20 PM

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View Postvianotik, on 19 December 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

What about AP from a IS7 not pen a Leo 1 hull?

 

Leo has 70mm at the front, which means that only 211mm+ guns autopen it. You probably hit the hull from an extreme angle and so didn't pen

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xFluffyDemon #6 Posted 19 December 2016 - 01:38 PM

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View Post_Biggles_, on 19 December 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

 

Leo has 70mm at the front, which means that only 211mm+ guns autopen it. You probably hit the hull from an extreme angle and so didn't pen

 

There wasnt almost any angle, he was right in front of me...

Huwie_ #7 Posted 19 December 2016 - 01:46 PM

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I did 300 dmg to Grille Turret with deathstar premium hesh yesterday. 

It hit the guard thing from 45 degrees. 

Seems its a bit of a lottery. 

 

Either that or I had lag, or the tracer was incorrect. 


Edited by Huwie_, 19 December 2016 - 01:48 PM.

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IrmaBecx #8 Posted 19 December 2016 - 03:09 PM

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Well, HESH gets eaten by tracks and what have you a lot easier now, same with HE shells. It's more difficult to get a clean HESH hit than it used to be. I don't know; I kind of think it's better this way than before, because it works more like I imagine it would in reality.

 

Yes, I know Blitz has nothing to do with "reality", but still...


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MosjeDayan #9 Posted 19 December 2016 - 03:14 PM

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I have bad experience shooting HESH with Centurion 7/1 with HESH. Often 85 damage on a grey part of an enemy tank. So I shoot only HES when I am behind a red tank.


 

 


Huwie_ #10 Posted 19 December 2016 - 03:18 PM

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But i reality a direct hesh hit by a 183mm would completely render a grille unusable and probably kill everyone manning it and many bystanders too. But this aint reality. 

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mayolicious #11 Posted 19 December 2016 - 03:31 PM

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Note I said 'turret' not 'tracks' and that the commander claimed that I hit the Grille but it didn't go through.

 

But anyway the comment about shooting the gun is interesting. That is about where the shell would have hit, but how does that mean it would cause 0 damage and not even any splash? I really think HESH has a bug associated with it because that should never happen, the splash should still pen the rest of the installation and failing that should at least do splash damage. 

 

Edit: also note this was from the front of the Grille not the back


Edited by mayolicious, 19 December 2016 - 03:32 PM.

 


IrmaBecx #12 Posted 19 December 2016 - 06:26 PM

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View Postmayolicious, on 19 December 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

Note I said 'turret' not 'tracks' and that the commander claimed that I hit the Grille but it didn't go through.

 

But anyway the comment about shooting the gun is interesting. That is about where the shell would have hit, but how does that mean it would cause 0 damage and not even any splash? I really think HESH has a bug associated with it because that should never happen, the splash should still pen the rest of the installation and failing that should at least do splash damage. 

 

Edit: also note this was from the front of the Grille not the back

 

I agree it does sound strange. Even hitting corners of flimsy armour usually yields damage. It's hard to imagine what you would have to hit in order to get an extreme-angle bounce, because we all know that happens with HE-type shells even though it's not supposed to.

 

If this isn't a bug, I cannot think anything other than you must have hit the actual gun barrel at a very extreme angle.

 

EDIT: also note the gun barrel on the grille is very long, so if the shell actually exploded away from the hull, there might not be splash damage at all. The fact the Commander said what he said suggests to me the shell didn't explode.

 

 


Edited by IrmaBecx, 19 December 2016 - 06:32 PM.

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HughDomfok #13 Posted 19 December 2016 - 06:32 PM

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My HESH almost never works against Grille or Waffletracker as intended.

IrmaBecx #14 Posted 19 December 2016 - 06:40 PM

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I just had a look in Armor Inspector, and if you had hit the gun barrel on the Grille with APCR, it would have went straight through; however, if you hit the gun barrel with a HESH round away from the blast shield, you would have a 35% chance of doing critical module damage to the gun, but no damage at all to the actual tank. With the barrel being so big, that's not so unlikely.

 

Interestingly, the Grille also has double side plates, and at some angles, the corners can act as spaced armour and defeat HESH rounds. You would still do between 150 and 300 splash damage, though.


Edited by IrmaBecx, 19 December 2016 - 06:41 PM.

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Dassem_ #15 Posted 19 December 2016 - 06:48 PM

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this is the same as on the borsig and the waffel. just worse on the grille, where it seems at least 50% of the turret consist of gun, no matter what angle you shoot it from. And the gun is a module. I now only use HE against these targets if theyre sitting still, and i have time to aim fully.
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IrmaBecx #16 Posted 19 December 2016 - 07:20 PM

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View PostDassem_Ultor_, on 19 December 2016 - 08:48 PM, said:

this is the same as on the borsig and the waffel. just worse on the grille, where it seems at least 50% of the turret consist of gun, no matter what angle you shoot it from. And the gun is a module. I now only use HE against these targets if theyre sitting still, and i have time to aim fully.

 

Yea, for sure! I even started carrying less HE in pretty much all my tanks. Not that many vehicles have super low ammo capacity, but in the T-54 Mod. 1 for example, I carry no HE at all (and 50/50 WN8PCR/Regular AP...).


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IrmaBecx #17 Posted 19 December 2016 - 07:22 PM

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"APCR - The Ammo choice of Champions!"

 

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minitelrose #18 Posted 20 December 2016 - 12:25 AM

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Interesting case.

 

 

i went to armor inspector and wanted to post pics, but imgur didn't let me.

 I have no clue how it was in your game, mayo, but what I saw was this : 

 

When you hit the gun, the HESH should do 60-150 splash damage almost anywhere along the gun.

 

But that's the trick :  The tank will lose zero hp because of the gun hit. that is splash damage, and there will be damage only if the gun is above some weak tank parts. I.e.  above the tank engine deck which will actually gather the damage. 

 

As soon as the gun is turned away from the hull, like laterally or to the rear, when the gun is hit the explosion will occur too far from the hull and will fail to reach any tank hitbox for splash damage.

 

i might try to post pics tomorrow if you guys are nice.

 

Edit :

lucky you guys ! You should go open a crate ! Imgur works again.

 

Ok look at both guns look about the same way, but the hull is underneath the gun or not. And will receive the damge from the explosion, or not. Simple.

 

 

Posted Image

 

Posted Image

 

 


Edited by minitelrose, 20 December 2016 - 12:36 AM.

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mayolicious #19 Posted 20 December 2016 - 12:47 PM

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Okay Irma and Minitel have cracked it I think. The Grille was looking directly at me and I aimed central to the turret. I think it must have hit the end of the gun and then caused no module damage as the splash will not reach any other part of the tank. Just a pure freak incident combined with the module damage rng 

 


minitelrose #20 Posted 20 December 2016 - 12:58 PM

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I will tell you that many events go absolutely unexplained, in anyway you look at them. Like some bounces on light tanks which should be overmatched all around. Like how e25 cannot pen through is6 skirts. Many things bro.

 

but amazingly, a few things can be explained. That part is almost shocking.


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I want just that, and replay files.

 





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