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Gap to big

Pay to win grind

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TeddyT24 #1 Posted 14 May 2017 - 12:31 PM

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just wondering if the gap between play for free and pay to win has become to big and what you all think? My example of this is two newish players on the grind up the tech trees. Both are of equal skill. One (the free to play) buys a tank and first out it is stock with 50% crew no equipment, no provisions and no prammo because he doesn't have the credits. The second (pay to win) buys the same tank golds to 100% crew, credits and gold to nine equipment, runs all provisions, and uses prammo. 

 

I understand that WG like the second player better and if u are willing to pay there should be a tangible advantage but is the advantage described above to much, not enough, or about right?

 

For me it's far to much. With all the improvements u can add to a tank from firstly buying from stock (crew, ungraded, equipment, provisions, prammo, camo) there is to much of an imbalance. So therefore is there an issue with the amount of improvements you can do to a tank from stock to maxed out?



Precariat #2 Posted 14 May 2017 - 01:00 PM

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View PostTeddyT24, on 14 May 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

just wondering if the gap between play for free and pay to win has become to big and what you all think? My example of this is two newish players on the grind up the tech trees. Both are of equal skill. One (the free to play) buys a tank and first out it is stock with 50% crew no equipment, no provisions and no prammo because he doesn't have the credits. The second (pay to win) buys the same tank golds to 100% crew, credits and gold to nine equipment, runs all provisions, and uses prammo. 

 

I understand that WG like the second player better and if u are willing to pay there should be a tangible advantage but is the advantage described above to much, not enough, or about right?

 

For me it's far to much. With all the improvements u can add to a tank from firstly buying from stock (crew, ungraded, equipment, provisions, prammo, camo) there is to much of an imbalance. So therefore is there an issue with the amount of improvements you can do to a tank from stock to maxed out?

 

Well the tutorial would give them both some gold, so you need to factor that in. Spare parts are based on missions and number of battles only. At low tier even a scrub like me can come out ahead on credits, it more likely becomes p2p at the higher tiers. that will vary based on player skill.

Obviously the paying players can progress faster, simply by buying premium time/tanks but that has always been the case hasn't it?


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S1p401 #3 Posted 14 May 2017 - 01:04 PM

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Pretty sure that soon can buy sp with gold. 

Frodo_Nifinger #4 Posted 14 May 2017 - 01:10 PM

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View PostTeddyT24, on 14 May 2017 - 01:31 PM, said:

just wondering if the gap between play for free and pay to win has become to big and what you all think? My example of this is two newish players on the grind up the tech trees. Both are of equal skill. One (the free to play) buys a tank and first out it is stock with 50% crew no equipment, no provisions and no prammo because he doesn't have the credits. The second (pay to win) buys the same tank golds to 100% crew, credits and gold to nine equipment, runs all provisions, and uses prammo. 

 

I understand that WG like the second player better and if u are willing to pay there should be a tangible advantage but is the advantage described above to much, not enough, or about right?

 

For me it's far to much. With all the improvements u can add to a tank from firstly buying from stock (crew, ungraded, equipment, provisions, prammo, camo) there is to much of an imbalance. So therefore is there an issue with the amount of improvements you can do to a tank from stock to maxed out?

 

Well, not many starts out as a paying customer from day one! It is a slow process!

You start out as a freebee, trying on the game. If you like the game and carry on, you are likely to do so untill it gets to hard to generate credits enough. Then you start to buy premium time and carry on! it is not that expencive

Later on you start buying a premium tank to improve earnings? Suddenly you buy a premium tank you really love, and now you start to buy every new one, because you dont want to risk missing out on a really great tank!

Now you might start to out grade your favourite tanks. you get into a clan, Maybe Move couple of times untill you find a good one, and now you might drift into Clan Wars and tournaments.

Now the spending really starts;)

Just my own story, more or less!


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sixty_three #5 Posted 14 May 2017 - 01:28 PM

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View PostTeddyT24, on 14 May 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

just wondering if the gap between play for free and pay to win has become to big and what you all think?

 

 

Yes, TeddyT24, the game has become more unbalanced due to the release of v.3.8.  

 

In another post I suggested to WG that they must open all equipment slots for all tanks, eliminating spare parts and timers.  While fully compensating players for their previous credit and spare part equipment investments.  Losss due to the use of sub-optimal equipment would then be due to the player making an unskillful choice, rather than their lack of cash.

 

I'd be quite happy for WG to still make money out of this game by charging for premium tanks, premium time, garage slots - in fact anything that would give players more variety.  Access to new maps, for instance.  But anything that gives a rich player an advantage in fighting a battle over a hard up player just isn't fair.

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Dassem_ #6 Posted 14 May 2017 - 05:28 PM

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this title led to massive disappointment on my part... :(

 


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CosmicBalderdash #7 Posted 14 May 2017 - 05:48 PM

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View PostDassem_, on 14 May 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

this title led to massive disappointment on my part... :(

 

You're talking on vagina?



TeddyT24 #8 Posted 14 May 2017 - 05:53 PM

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View PostDassem_, on 14 May 2017 - 05:28 PM, said:

this title led to massive disappointment on my part... :(

 

 

when I came up with that title I did wonder who would be the first. You haven't disappointed.  

Dassem_ #9 Posted 14 May 2017 - 06:37 PM

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View PostCosmicBalderdash, on 14 May 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

You're talking on vagina?

 

nah, my parents raised me well, and taught me never to speak with my mouth full.
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HariKariGaryNeedsaCarry #10 Posted 14 May 2017 - 09:09 PM

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I think there is a gap but probably only noticeable in 20% of the games. Seems to be a sweet spot for me at tier 5 and 6, I can play most tanks with limited equipment and still do ok then maybe one or two games out of ten you will just get hammered either by a really good toon or just a couple of players with maxxed out tanks.

 

I think the higher you go the more apparent the gap will be, tiers 8 and up more competitive and seem to be either really good players or complete nuggets whom have no idea. A fully maxxed tank at high tiers represents a good advantage over semi equipped or stock. 

 

The shame of it is, as more people equip their tanks and realise this, lots of tanks will be parked up in garage gathering dust or sold. I suspect we will see fewer panthers, t20s, m10s, edelweiss, nameless, jgtig8.8 etc.

 

New equipment was to offer more diversity of equipment, which it has, but at the cost of less diversity of tanks. I'm still rolling out my hydrostat, but it's tough with limited gun depression but seems to be growing on me, don't see many others knocking around.


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Chairman_merpug #11 Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:14 PM

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Gap to big what?

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Gromchy #12 Posted 15 May 2017 - 01:40 AM

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View Postmrpgilbert, on 14 May 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

Gap to big what?

Think he meant "Gap too big".

If it's the case, yes I agree.



Chairman_merpug #13 Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:55 AM

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View PostGromchy, on 15 May 2017 - 01:40 AM, said:

Think he meant "Gap too big".

If it's the case, yes I agree.

I still see useless goldnoobs. Took down one in an IS-6 yesterday with my T-43.

My own feeling is that the attempt to pay to win might help short term, the player's own ability is more important. 

And I wish people could use language properly. It's not difficult.


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SirArthurStreebGreebling #14 Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:47 AM

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On a side note.

 

one of the things I find. A little cheeky, is that during the tutorial a new player earns, if I remember correctly, around 1,000 gold.

 

however, the tutorial doesn't cover much mor Ethan moving & shooting. Nothing about th economy.

 

As experienced players, and I bet everyone has done this at some stage, I'm sure we've all bought a new tank or upgraded modules and forgot to switch the prammo currency from gold to credits.

 

This isn't covered in the tutorial, so the poor newbie gets a nice chunk of gold to get a start with, and then almost certainly blows it all as soon as he/she discovers prammo.

 

Edit: again, iirc, you already have a tier 3 tank by the time you've finished the tutorial, which doesn't go a long way to discouraging barrelling up through the tiers as fast as you can.

 


Edited by Bucks85th, 15 May 2017 - 10:03 AM.


eliasdepelias #15 Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:54 AM

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Agree that the gap has gotten bigger, and that is worrying because it heightens the treshold for new players. There is now a double gap: new / veteran players, and paying/non paying. On top of the ease in wich players get to high tiers. Tiers were the +5% armor does work. Meeting sealclubbers in totally equipped DW2, littlepards, KV1... Very discouraging.

And I do not want to be selfpromoting, but my suggestion to skip the extra equipment for low tiers is not so idiot after all.

http://forum.wotblitz.eu/index.php?/topic/42125-how-to-improve-on-38-aka-what-should-39-do/



Chairman_merpug #16 Posted 15 May 2017 - 11:18 AM

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The 1000 gold is like the free bet you get on gambling sites. It's to hook you in to the game economy.

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Cancracker #17 Posted 15 May 2017 - 11:45 AM

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The player that uses gold progresses faster up the line but in hindsight that doesn't bring much given the -1/+1 matchmaker. The player that doesn't use gold could get better stats because he has to play at lower tiers to earn credits and that can be done with less equipment and firing less prammo. So after 100K battles, given equal skills the player who doesn't use gold will be on top in the stat and they both have the tree unlocked.

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Some seals will be getting sooooo clubbed in the next couple of weeks."
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eliasdepelias #18 Posted 15 May 2017 - 12:01 PM

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View PostCancracker, on 15 May 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

The player that uses gold progresses faster up the line but in hindsight that doesn't bring much given the -1/+1 matchmaker. The player that doesn't use gold could get better stats because he has to play at lower tiers to earn credits and that can be done with less equipment and firing less prammo. So after 100K battles, given equal skills the player who doesn't use gold will be on top in the stat and they both have the tree unlocked.

 

The contrary.

With equal skill, the player who spends gold with has two big advantages. One is that his tank is always better, so he shoots a little faster, aims better, drives faster and has more hitpoints, making him live longer. Should result in better stats. And two, he progresses faster and gets to learn how to play the big guys faster. If he learns fast enough that is... if the jump in class is to much, his stats will suffer indeed.



Cancracker #19 Posted 15 May 2017 - 02:58 PM

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View Posteliasdepelias, on 15 May 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

 

The contrary.

With equal skill, the player who spends gold with has two big advantages. One is that his tank is always better, so he shoots a little faster, aims better, drives faster and has more hitpoints, making him live longer. Should result in better stats. And two, he progresses faster and gets to learn how to play the big guys faster. If he learns fast enough that is... if the jump in class is to much, his stats will suffer indeed.

 

This is valid for the first line only. If you take a snapshot at the point when each player completes the tech tree, the player who used no gold will have better stats albeit a far greater game count. And I mean the player uses prammo wisely not spamming it. After completing the tree the player that doesn't use gold will still need to play efficient tanks to fund his high tier ones so the wr difference will increase in his favor as time progresses.

"X 5 weekend, 10 games 9 losses ...
Some seals will be getting sooooo clubbed in the next couple of weeks."
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HughDomfok #20 Posted 15 May 2017 - 04:15 PM

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View PostTeddyT24, on 14 May 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

 One (the free to play) buys a tank and first out it is stock with 50% crew no equipment, no provisions and no prammo because he doesn't have the credits.

 

 

Unless, after he got credits for a tank, he figured out that he can also farm credits for crew and equipment before getting the tank.

 


Edited by HughDomfok, 15 May 2017 - 04:16 PM.






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