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Equipment and spare parts - I understand why WG did what they did...

spare parts equipment

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hson_hson #1 Posted 16 August 2017 - 08:14 AM

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I got back to the game after a somewhat forced break just about the same time as spare parts were introduced and at first I hated the change.

But then after a while I realized why WG did this change.

 

First let me give you some background

 

On PC equipment is more expensive and you need gold to "demount" otherwise the credits is lost when you sell a tank.

Crew skills get exponentially harder and harder to get (100k for first, 200k for second, 400k for third....)

This means that it's a huge difference between a player who just started to play and one with 100k battles

 

On Console they reworked the crew skills a bit.

First they changed to that the first 3 skills need 100k, 4-6 200k and so on.

But they also added a lot of new skills, some only useful for lights, some for tds and so on, probably thinking this would make it easier for newer players to compete

 

On Blitz they made the crew skills system totally different.

Each skill has 6 levels and even though it's quite easy to get the first levels, they also get exponentially harder to get.

But the big thing is they messed up the bonuses for some where the bonus isn't just 1-6% but up to 35% (firefighting) and with camouflage (18%) probably the one that makes the biggest difference.

Equipment was also reworked where you got 50% of the credits back when you sold it

 

 

 

Now I think that WG realized a long time ago that the system on PC makes it much harder for new players to get into the game.

Fresh players soon realize that they are not always getting killed by more skilled people but people with better/more equipment and specially with more crew skills.

It's not uncommon to meet people with several thousands of battles in tier 4-6 who probably have 4-5 skills on their crew and they get to meet people who don't have any equipment and not even sixth sense.

And when they do, many leave the game.

 

 

So when similar things started to happen on Blitz they thought "how can we counteract this" and came up with the new equipment system.

A veteran player got spare parts to fully equip just a portion of his tanks (unless he played tons of battles and only owns a small number of tanks)

This means that the veteran playing in lower tiers probably hasn't fully equipped his tank and thus skill is more important

 

So in my view, WG did this in order to attract more people to the game even though they probably knew that it would upset all the veterans still playing the game.



Craig_Ace_1964 #2 Posted 16 August 2017 - 08:20 AM

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I fully equipped my tier 3 Cruiser 4 and it made me an even better seal clubber than I was before

because I had an even bigger advantage over the newbee's



jonty_2014 #3 Posted 16 August 2017 - 08:26 AM

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Possibly. But then again, I had enough SP to equip some seal clubbing tanks, step forward Kenny, Pz B2, BT-7A, Littlepard - and in any case, the first three slots are nearly what I had on most tanks, and addition of the level 2 GLD took most tanks to where they were before, more or less. 

 

I think there was an element of trying to increase the diversity of equipment, but it was and remains, a flawed idea.


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ballist1x #4 Posted 16 August 2017 - 10:09 AM

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I see it like they had 1000s of players playing for free. Other players with pots of gold they never spent.  

Bulb doing this they are trying to get users to buy gold or use gold to speed up the timers.



jylpah #5 Posted 16 August 2017 - 10:53 AM

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Well said hson_x2

 

The Equipment and Crew skilll system in PC WoT is one of the big reasons I don't like the game. Especially not having 6th Sense is a major issue for new players. PC WoT is a Grind-Hell™. You are supposed to play thousands of games in one single tank just to grind the crew skills - otherwise you are in disadvantaged position vs. players with more games. Blitz Crew skill and Equipment systems are far better.  

 

I still don't understand why the compensation was so low. I am still grinding SP to equip tanks I like to play and I don't have SP to equip new tanks. The balance is just not right. 

 

I am concerned that with Spare Parts WG is making Blitz also similar Grind Hell™ as PC WoT. They may think that this will motivate people to play more, but for me it is counterproductive. I want to play on level playing field and not to have to play against players just having better (equipped) tanks instead of skill.  

 

I still think the Equipment System is a brain-fart never thought properly: 

  1. It reduces motivation to buy premium tanks -> less money to WG
  2. it reduces reason to buy Premium Account -> less money to WG
  3. It reduces motivation to play lot of different tanks -> players feel less happy -> less money spent
  4. It reduces variety of tanks played -> players feel less happy -> less money spent

 

I believe they will fix the premium tank SP somehow and I hope the solution is to sell premium tanks with level II equipment (and to compensate existing premium tank owners). I hoped for they would increase SP yield for premium tanks, but the Devs' comments indicate otherwise. 


Just a little buff for Panther II, please 

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Debbie_Does_Dallas #6 Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:20 AM

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Wg are a business, the prime objective is to make money. Spare parts and equipment are just a different avenue of cold hard mooolah for them :(

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CHRD_LxCH #7 Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:24 AM

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LoL. 

 

I had my Pz. S35, KV-2, Bromwell, Helsing, Hype-62, Hype-59, IS-3D and T95 full equipped as a gift for newbies.

 

 



MaxiBeats #8 Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:35 AM

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That would explain why spare parts for lower tier vehicles are relatively expensive.

 

However, if that's the reason, then WG messed up by making mission completion the primary means of acquiring spare parts. If you want to acquire as many spare parts as efficiently possible then farming six Tier III/IV missions a day is a rational option.

 

I'm a low volume player who used to diddle around mid tiers. Since 3.8 I've been clubbing and mission farming at Tier III/ IV with fully tricked out strong tanks. I'll stop when I've fully equipped my mid tier tanks.

 

Counterproductive? Yup



drbill #9 Posted 16 August 2017 - 11:42 AM

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Nope, can't see it being to help newbies as the system would never work to aid them.

 

Why? Because wg have made spare parts so valuable then a new player will never equip it on lower tanks and would just store them for use once they reach higher tiers. Therefore it still just becomes the system as before where people are mostly playing the same tanks with differing personal skill levels and different crew skills. Except in the circumstances people have previously mentioned above where people will now equip a seal clubbing machine with all equipment and be even more deadly to newbies than they were pre spare parts.


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Titus_Scato #10 Posted 16 August 2017 - 12:37 PM

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View PostMaxiBeats, on 16 August 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

That would explain why spare parts for lower tier vehicles are relatively expensive.

 

However, if that's the reason, then WG messed up by making mission completion the primary means of acquiring spare parts. If you want to acquire as many spare parts as efficiently possible then farming six Tier III/IV missions a day is a rational option.

 

I'm a low volume player who used to diddle around mid tiers. Since 3.8 I've been clubbing and mission farming at Tier III/ IV with fully tricked out strong tanks. I'll stop when I've fully equipped my mid tier tanks.

 

Counterproductive? Yup

 

Precisely.

 

That's why I suggested that Tier I-III tanks get only Level 1 equipment, Tier IV-VI tanks get access to Level 2 equipment, and only Tier VII-X tanks get access to Level 3 equipment.

 

And seal clubber equipment superiority issue would be solved.

 

But that was a sensible suggestion, so no wonder WG ignored it...



killerkiller777 #11 Posted 16 August 2017 - 12:39 PM

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What is obvious to me is that WG wants, no matter what, to motivate new players to stay and transform them into long term players (which is a good thing after all). This is why SP were introduced, to reduce the gap between experienced players and new players, the same purpose was nerfing premium ammo or introducing tanks hard to penetrate like HTC and Lupus. Apart, all these freebies are just to catch the attention and to make them becoming addicted to the game. Most probably, based on WG's stats, once the players get addicted to the game then they will start paying for the game.

 

What I still believe that was not fair was how WG calculated the compensation for existing equipment because even I got around 1.5 mill of SP those were far away to help me to equip the 50 tanks in my garage to a level that they could be played (i.e. at least VStab for meds, destroyers, Russian heavies, etc).


Thank you for removing timers and spare parts, now please do the same with Military Honor !


onlypainhurts #12 Posted 16 August 2017 - 01:14 PM

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I really think your analysis is off,  if WG were really worried about the barrier to entry you can solve the issue by making spare parts cheap at low tiers so that veterans and newbies can have fully equipped tanks easily.  Hell if they were that concerned with new players feeling welcome and on even footing they could have limited early tiers to less slots.  Say 4 slots for all tier 4 and under tanks,  this could have been done and would have drawn less ire from veteran players as it would have meant they would have had to spent less spare parts to equip their favorite tanks.

 

but this isn't what they chose to so they chose to make low tier equipment expensive and have all 9 slots which I suspect is more likely they thought people would take more time to grind and unlock all slots but then some fool thought that hey let's try and make money from this so let's add timers they can pay for without realizing that with the rarity of spare parts the timers make little difference.

 

what ever the intention was they botched it big time and the band aid give away free stuff in game is almost as bad for the health of it,  it attracts a certain type of player and mind set that up is bad for the long term survival of games.  When the gotta have free stuff crowd gets bored they will abandon it.


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onlypainhurts #13 Posted 16 August 2017 - 01:24 PM

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View Postkillerkiller777, on 16 August 2017 - 01:39 PM, said:

What is obvious to me is that WG wants, no matter what, to motivate new players to stay and transform them into long term players (which is a good thing after all). This is why SP were introduced, to reduce the gap between experienced players and new players, the same purpose was nerfing premium ammo or introducing tanks hard to penetrate like HTC and Lupus. Apart, all these freebies are just to catch the attention and to make them becoming addicted to the game. Most probably, based on WG's stats, once the players get addicted to the game then they will start paying for the game.

 

What I still believe that was not fair was how WG calculated the compensation for existing equipment because even I got around 1.5 mill of SP those were far away to help me to equip the 50 tanks in my garage to a level that they could be played (i.e. at least VStab for meds, destroyers, Russian heavies, etc).

 

there is more gap now than there was before,  especially for the player that can only log in for a few games a day.  There is no way in hell they will ever be able to equip as many tanks as I have.  Being the farming of spare parts is gated behind missions they cannot hope to match an older player.  the last patch addressed this slightly by giving you more parts from medals but this benefits older players more,than it does new.   

 

This was not a deal for new players to be on more even footing,  there is no logic that supports that,   Even the prammo explanation that said was to balance the haves and have nots has turned out to be a lie,   It was done to shift the meta away from meds? Do you know why?  So all the obj140 drivers would grind a new line to get a shiny new IS4 and be OP again.  Willing to bet that we will,see,another meta shift in about a year,   It's all to keep people chasing new stuff.

 

These updates,weren't necessarily targeted at a new or old player but a specific type of player.

 


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killerkiller777 #14 Posted 16 August 2017 - 02:24 PM

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View Postonlypainhurts, on 16 August 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

 

there is more gap now than there was before,  especially for the player that can only log in for a few games a day.  There is no way in hell they will ever be able to equip as many tanks as I have.  Being the farming of spare parts is gated behind missions they cannot hope to match an older player.  the last patch addressed this slightly by giving you more parts from medals but this benefits older players more,than it does new.   

 

This was not a deal for new players to be on more even footing,  there is no logic that supports that,   Even the prammo explanation that said was to balance the haves and have nots has turned out to be a lie,   It was done to shift the meta away from meds? Do you know why?  So all the obj140 drivers would grind a new line to get a shiny new IS4 and be OP again.  Willing to bet that we will,see,another meta shift in about a year,   It's all to keep people chasing new stuff.

 

These updates,weren't necessarily targeted at a new or old player but a specific type of player.

 

Maybe the typology of player you in your mind is different than the one I do.

 

By new player I really mean a new player that start playing the game as we speak. For all these ones, I think, the changes that WG made were with the purpose to educate them more how to play this game and to have a better start than, for example, I had. Like for example to not rush the tiers, to just learn to play and work a tank they started with. It is really easy to equip one tank if you start the game now because you can get enough SP from missions (another thing that WG wanted players to do no matter what), freebies and some medals if you are lucky as a new player to get any. I think the real "problem" for these new players are the timers more than SP but again, maybe the reason of why WG introduced them was to get more money from new players (skipping timers). Also, another fact that made me think that WG wants to protect these new players was the HP increase for low tiers, so, seal clubbers need to work more in order to vanish entire team of opponents. The same of premium ammo nerf, seal clubbers only spammed gold in low tiers so, if will keep do so, then will just do low damage as they did before.

 

I do agree that SP affected badly veterans especially the ones with a very large garage. Even me with a small one felt affected. Also, this SP system cut some of our freedoms like I feel hard now to denoob tanks especially all the ones you played long ago and you haven't in your garage before 3.8 because will take a very long time to equip them to a good level for debnoobing. The same about buying new tanks, but I think WG was not thinking to us at all because, most probably, we spent already money for the game and they consider us as matured milked cows already or the opposite, they will think that no matter what, we will still spend for the game because of addiction and hard to move to another game and to abandon all what we have built so far. Anyway, I think, again, that they have had enough data (statistical data) when they made these decisions and seems like they were willing to keep them even we fight back hard. They only got soften a bit about SP and improved it but still not to a level when you can equip all your existing tanks or to enjoy grinding new lines.

 

Of course, all these are just assumptions and my understanding of why these changes were made or in a other way, an excuse for accepting these changes and to move on.


Thank you for removing timers and spare parts, now please do the same with Military Honor !


Mjr_Eazy #15 Posted 16 August 2017 - 05:49 PM

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I started playing round about 3.6 - can't remember version for sure but before 3.8 and I sound like the player onlypainhurts is describing, I bought gold and used it to rush tanks and missions and equipment timers and was like a sackful of potatos i was so bad, but I was progressing through the tiers and didn't really care about WR, but now I do and I'm grinding away in tiers 4-6 to get better and equip tanks but I'm not spending money.  So it has had opposite effect - I've stopped spending 60-70 quid a month and now don't use real cash.

I hate the timers but after what WG did in 3.8 I'm not spending my hard earned kids inheritance on gold!  Hopefully there has been enough noise about rare parts they address it - I think the free gold and rare parts in crates is part of that but until then don't spend cash - that is the only message a money machine like WG will listen to!

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MarsIsBrightTonight #16 Posted 16 August 2017 - 07:56 PM

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Any way you put it there's something that does not make sense. It's almost like the equipment reworking was boycotted from within the company...

As it is, seal clubbers run amok in low tiers (and God I know I am one). If WG wanted to "protect" new players, they'd introduce a penalty for okay by low tiers in their rating system, same as was done for WN7. If they wanted to prevent them from rushing tiers they'd remove the ability to grind with gold and would increase the amount of XP necessary to research the next Tier tank. My best guess is that it was done to reduce the gap between new and old players, but whoever was in charge of the simulation only thought things halfway through; maybe they thought players would spread available spare parts evenly, instead of arming a few OP tanks to the teeth and mothballing the rest. 


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jylpah #17 Posted 17 August 2017 - 08:14 AM

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View PostMarsIsBrightTonight, on 17 August 2017 - 03:56 AM, said:

Any way you put it there's something that does not make sense. It's almost like the equipment reworking was boycotted from within the company...

As it is, seal clubbers run amok in low tiers (and God I know I am one). If WG wanted to "protect" new players, they'd introduce a penalty for okay by low tiers in their rating system, same as was done for WN7. If they wanted to prevent them from rushing tiers they'd remove the ability to grind with gold and would increase the amount of XP necessary to research the next Tier tank. My best guess is that it was done to reduce the gap between new and old players, but whoever was in charge of the simulation only thought things halfway through; maybe they thought players would spread available spare parts evenly, instead of arming a few OP tanks to the teeth and mothballing the rest. 

 

Let me simplify: whoever was in charge of the simulation only thought things halfway through.

 

This adequately describes my thoughts on the Equipment change. It is either a marvelous plan which we don't understand or then just a half-way-thought screw-up. My money is on the latter.    

 


Just a little buff for Panther II, please 

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minitelrose #18 Posted 17 August 2017 - 08:49 PM

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View Posthson_hson, on 16 August 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

I got back to the game 

[edited]

 

Oh Hson I missed you so much.

i actually have been wondering for a long time why they did what they did. I liked the new equipment grid and some of the content. I couldn't get my head around the rare parts so much. However the complexity of it and the endless grind nature of it made me think of it all more like crew skills.

I was then wondering why instead, they didn't give us more complex crew skills, that you logically grind forever and give you forever bonus as well. To me that fit the nature and mechanics of it more closely. As a 50.000 battle player, managing crews would also have added some spice into my blitz career.

I also have no clue what they will do to the existing crew skills system now that I have them all to level 6 and some are reaching the million overhead XP. 

 

but your post answers all these. Eventually crew skills are widening the gap with new players to a big margin. Maybe in many situations impossible to overcome. 

Meanwhile equipments might allow veterans to equip fully a couple of tanks but grinding new lines will always make you equal to your newbie counterpart. 

 

It makes no sense in the garage and is too complex if you ask me, but does make sense in the gameplay as well as for new player retention..

 

Thank you for your post Hson.

 


Edited by minitelrose, 17 August 2017 - 08:53 PM.

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I want just that, and replay files.

 


Steelyvoid #19 Posted 07 November 2017 - 09:35 PM

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I walked away from the game after 3.8 in protest at the ridiculous unwanted complexity of the new system and waited for WG to admit what a disaster it was and change it back.

 

With 4.4 coming along (and the new British line, which is something I've been waiting for for years, and frankly, something WG should have been working on instead of overengineered complexity in the garage) I decided to get back into the game and give the new equipment system a try (and just live with the fact that I'll only be able to afford to equip a small fraction of the tanks in my garage). 

 

I was hoping to be surprised and find that there were pros to go along with that big con.  However, for the life of me, I can't find any.  For instance

 

  • I've got loads of TDs and I can't give them the enhanced optics plus camo.  
  • One of the appeals to me of the old system was that certain types of equipment were realistically specific to certain tanks.  I liked the fact that you could only get grousers on Pz3s and 4s, and my main motivation for working my way up the US Meds was to get to the gyrostabiliser (historically, Shermans were the first tanks to fit them).  Now I've got a gyrostabiliser on my FT17 - daft.
  • Under the old system, every bit of equipment was an actual "thing" (engine filters, wet ammo rack etc).  On the new system, we have equipment like "Supercharge".  What is a "Supercharge" and what does it look like?

 

For me, the new system has less "theme" than the old system.  Pieces of equipment don't mean anything anymore - they're just an arbitrary way to spend currency to change the performance of the tank, with meaningless restrictions on which performance numbers you want to improve.

 

Is it just me?



Markat26 #20 Posted 07 November 2017 - 10:31 PM

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It's not just you. Yes it is a mess, but we can't keep fighting the same old battles. Play the game, have fun, move on. 





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