Jump to content


Tier V 3-inch AT gun penetration compared to tier IV 75mm AT gun


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

StrikeFIN #1 Posted 06 December 2017 - 01:11 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Player
  • 5724 battles
  • 522
  • [AOF]
  • Member since:
    03-05-2014
Tier V 3-inch (101 AP penetration) has bigger shell (heavier) than tier IV 75mm (106 AP penetration), so why penetration mess up?

Edited by StrikeFIN, 07 December 2017 - 06:47 AM.

Serious MH suggestion discussion: http://forum.wotblit...497#entry663497

Add 76mm L-11 optional gun for A-32 premium tank!


JJSawry #2 Posted 06 December 2017 - 01:33 PM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Player
  • 18287 battles
  • 221
  • [EU]
  • Member since:
    11-21-2016
What exactly are you asking? You assume a higher calibre gun always has better penetration than a smaller one? Glacial 122mm has lower penetration than panther2's 88.

StrikeFIN #3 Posted 06 December 2017 - 01:37 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Player
  • 5724 battles
  • 522
  • [AOF]
  • Member since:
    03-05-2014

As you maybe noticed (or not?) this topic is about tier V 3inch gun penetration compared to tier IV 75mm gun penetration.

 

With your question we could ask 122mm 30 pen compared to tank machine guns with 30-39 penetration :D


Edited by StrikeFIN, 06 December 2017 - 01:38 PM.

Serious MH suggestion discussion: http://forum.wotblit...497#entry663497

Add 76mm L-11 optional gun for A-32 premium tank!


JJSawry #4 Posted 06 December 2017 - 01:41 PM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Player
  • 18287 battles
  • 221
  • [EU]
  • Member since:
    11-21-2016

View PostStrikeFIN, on 06 December 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

As you maybe noticed (or not?) this topic is about tier V 3inch gun penetration compared to tier IV 75mm gun penetration.

 

With your question we could ask 122mm 30 pen compared to tank machine guns with 30-39 penetration :D

I'm asking why do you think one gun is supposed to have better pen than the other. And there is no 122mm gun with 30 ap pen.



talhaONE #5 Posted 06 December 2017 - 02:01 PM

    Senior Sergeant

  • Player
  • 10786 battles
  • 536
  • [CZZR]
  • Member since:
    09-26-2016
Tier of guns are different world.t25 tier 5 gun has 116 pen while strv74a2 tier 4 gun has 135 penetration.

Titus_Scato #6 Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:37 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 33346 battles
  • 5,361
  • [1RTR]
  • Member since:
    10-18-2014

View PostStrikeFIN, on 06 December 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

Tier V 3-inch (101 AP penetration) is bigger than tier IV 75mm (106 AP penetration), so why penetration mess up?

 

No mess up.  Penetration is related to shell velocity as well as shell calibre.  3 inch AT Gun M7 has 792 shell velocity compared to 75mm AT Gun M3 having 619 shell velocity.

 

(Google Blitzstars Tank Compare and look at M8A1 Tier 4 US TD with different guns selected.)



Neaul_1 #7 Posted 06 December 2017 - 03:52 PM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Player
  • 15989 battles
  • 246
  • [GARK]
  • Member since:
    09-13-2014

School I used to attend thought me kinetic energy calculation uses very simple algorithm:
( square(velocity) x weight ) / 2

 

Standard AP shell of 3 inch AT Gun M7 weights 6.8kg with velocity of 792m/s => 2132 KiloJoules

Standard AP shell of 75mm AT Gun M3 weights 6.3kg with velocity of 619m/s => 1206 KiloJoules

 

So the speed of the shell have much higher impact than caliber.

 

These are kinetic AP shells and I'm not even trying to calculate loss of energy over distance :)


Edited by Neaul_1, 06 December 2017 - 03:54 PM.


jonty_2014 #8 Posted 06 December 2017 - 04:24 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 50105 battles
  • 3,501
  • [EMRS]
  • Member since:
    09-23-2014
Penetration will also depend upon the shape and material of the shot, as well as the mass and velocity at point of impact, before we get on to angle of impact and composition of the armoured surface struck.

Don’t overthink - it’s just a game.

 


Neaul_1 #9 Posted 06 December 2017 - 05:58 PM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Player
  • 15989 battles
  • 246
  • [GARK]
  • Member since:
    09-13-2014

View Postjonty_2014, on 06 December 2017 - 04:24 PM, said:

Don’t overthink - it’s just a game.

 

Agree on that :)

romsitsa #10 Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:59 AM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 33959 battles
  • 3,596
  • [VG]
  • Member since:
    10-19-2011

Simply put game balance.

 

A



MaxiBeats #11 Posted 07 December 2017 - 11:15 AM

    Junior Sergeant

  • Player
  • 7265 battles
  • 168
  • [WPS2]
  • Member since:
    01-27-2015

View Postjonty_2014, on 06 December 2017 - 04:24 PM, said:

Penetration will also depend upon the shape and material of the shot, as well as the mass and velocity at point of impact, before we get on to angle of impact and composition of the armoured surface struck.

Don’t overthink - it’s just a game.

 

Elaborating on you mentioning the shape, at high velocities the length of the projectile is a factor which determines potential impact depth

 

like you say, it's really best not to overthink these things in the context of a game

 


Edited by MaxiBeats, 07 December 2017 - 11:15 AM.


minitelrose #12 Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:15 PM

    First Sergeant

  • Player
  • 47576 battles
  • 5,529
  • [AFK]
  • Member since:
    07-06-2014

View PostStrikeFIN, on 06 December 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

Tier V 3-inch (101 AP penetration) has bigger shell (heavier) than tier IV 75mm (106 AP penetration), so why penetration mess up?

 

 

Penetration is not about size (diameter) or wheight. 

Ammo intent and technology and design has more to do.

 

HE have slow velocity because of the risk of explosion during launch,  they have fragile construction to they detonate upon impact. They aren’t meant to pierce.

AP rely on kinetic energy (mass time the square of speed). So speed is more important. The material and shape of the tip is also important. 

APCR rely on kinetic energy. They are lighter, then reaching greater speed. The tip is different. They have a harder core like a crayon, with a lighter external material that isn’t meant to penetrate.  so they reduce the pressure point into a sharper needle. This makes penetration values greater. (with some downside)

HEAT needs a larger diameter, and flies slower than APCR in general as well, but it doesn’t rely on speed to penetrate. It has shaped explosives that detonate upon impact inwards of the head, making a directional jet of plasma which will melt the armor. Only works on a small distance from the impact point.

 

and so on. There are many designs and many variables, These designs worked better in some conditions, and worst in others,

All of these aspects,  the game is trying to emulate, even if sometimes it takes shortcuts.

Hope it helps.

 


Read my guides there

"I want the game to be just how it was launched, no MM limitations for platoons, some unbalanced match once in a while, and friendly fire should come back as well. The only thing they should remove is statistics." -phony1907, 08 July 2016, 05:45pm - 

I want just that, and replay files.

 





2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users