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To seal club or not to seal club...


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MarsIsBrightTonight #1 Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:25 PM

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So I have my T-54, and I'm pants in it. It's all maxed out so I can't blame the tank, it's just me. Looking at my stats you can see more or less a straight line going down from Tier IV to IX. If I play at high tiers I'm not effective and a hindrance to my team. If I pick a tank I'm proficient with, it's gonna be a Tier V. Which is better? To struggle for being above one's comfort zone, or to carry with too much ease?


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Revda1966 #2 Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:31 PM

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I took this step in December - wr down to 48.45 - I decided to read some articles the of which was how to use HE and went back to t3 and practiced I took lots attention to team and the reds make up worked more on flanking and hitting the soft spots instead of just booming away 

 

I am now fast approaching 49.4 wr - I am more effective in battle and the game is fun only when I hit 49.00 Wr did I then start going up tiers I only have one tier9 so I’m still saving that but regular t8 games with generally good results

 

hth

 



Vedrfoelnir #3 Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:35 PM

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Try to improve your gameplay in lower Tier's :) 

 You can climb step for step. 

 

Good luck :)



Knickerson #4 Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:37 PM

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It’s not sealclubbing if you’re doing it in the name of science. 
A horse, a horse! My kingdom for a horse! ...
I have set my life upon a cast,
and I will stand the hazard of a die.
 
William Shakespeare
Richard III – Act 5, scene 4

Revda1966 #5 Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:41 PM

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:D

mrpgilbert #6 Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:52 PM

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Why is this even a question?

Denoobing member of the Active Frontline Klan - and proud of it.

Be nice to me..

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IrmaBecx #7 Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:55 PM

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Honestly?

 

Stick with theT-54. You learn more from higher tier gameplay than lower tier gameplay. Likely what you are struggling with isn't just the T-54, but driving a Medium tank at tier IX in the first place.

 

What you could do is find a lower tier proxy that has a similar playstyle so you can practice the same manoeuvres. For the T-54 that might be the Lightweight, or Hype 59 if you got extremely lucky, which have the same hull and turret. Or, go back to something like the T-34-85 and practice the basics of Medium tank positioning.

 

Dropping back down the tiers and taking a break is of course good, but do try and keep playing a few higher tier games as well so you don't stagnate. You're not going to learn how to drive the actual T-54 driving any other tank.

 

Best of luck!


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sixty_three #8 Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:30 PM

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View PostMarsIsBrightTonight, on 13 January 2018 - 10:25 PM, said:

So I have my T-54, and I'm pants in it. It's all maxed out so I can't blame the tank, it's just me. Looking at my stats you can see more or less a straight line going down from Tier IV to IX. If I play at high tiers I'm not effective and a hindrance to my team. If I pick a tank I'm proficient with, it's gonna be a Tier V. Which is better? To struggle for being above one's comfort zone, or to carry with too much ease?

 

Do you think it's quite likely you'll have fun, learning something useful, by continuing to play with your T-54?  Such as better understanding the capabilities, and hence weaknesses, of your Tier X opposition?  If your answer is "No", then I wouldn't have thought there was much point continuing to play at this level.  

 

You might well in this instance have more fun learning to better play vehicles in the lower tiers that you haven't used much.  Like, say the Wolverine, Sherman V, etc.

 

However, so long as you are respectful towards your teammates, anything you wish to do is OK.  Fight a hundred battles in your new Tetrarch and see if you can maintain a 90% hit rate, or whatever!  

 


For my military knowledge, though I'm plucky and adventury,
Has only been brought down to the beginning of the century;
But still in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a modern Major-General.

MaxiBeats #9 Posted 14 January 2018 - 02:59 AM

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It might make things easier to focus on all the adorable Green seals you'll be saving from those beastly Red clubbers.

 

Some games there can be as many as two left on your team.



Hippopotamaus #10 Posted 14 January 2018 - 07:10 AM

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I rarely play above Tier 7 these days, but when I do I don’t find the higher tier teams that much better. There are noobs and unicum players at all tiers (and the ready availability of Tier 8 Premium tanks can make Tiers 7-9 particularly frustrating).

Edited by Hippopotamaus, 14 January 2018 - 07:11 AM.


Precariat #11 Posted 14 January 2018 - 07:17 AM

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View PostKnickerson, on 13 January 2018 - 10:37 PM, said:

It’s not sealclubbing if you’re doing it in the name of science. 

 

Personally I'm fascinated by the lower tiers, along with the subject of "is WR even a stat anyone should care about" (go read Carried by a 45% er)

 

Now I don't know what people expect? Should I play at a tier where I struggle (currently tier VI) or at a tier where I have an acceptable WR? IF I have a lower WR at a tier and folks start saying you should go play low tiers (or delete game etc.), but let's look at that.

 

My best tier WR is tier II (56.88%) my worst tier VI (50.98% but only 51 battles there), however most of the tier VI battles were in the Jumbo (47 battles) but I only managed to drag that back from a 40% WR yesterday after an 8 game win streak including a Mastery. However even before that I had decent stats in that tank excluding WR. When teams seem worse at not dying quickly than at lower tiers I'd rather play in better teams even if they are lower tier. It was pointed out in Clan chat that tier VI is where one shot can regularly kill you (or make you a 1 shot for every other red) so bad positioning is punished harder.

 

Folks call out seal clubbers like it's a bad thing but it simply shows you are good at that tier. Is someone with <60% WR at that tier a seal clubber? How low is that bar? Blitzstars had me as an Ace Seal Clubber before my run in the Jumbo simply because I have played a lot of games below tier VI recently. I think it should be remembered I play for my enjoyment only and I'll play at what tier I want to, I still find challenges in lower tier battles enough for me without feeling bad MM selection has doomed me before the clock even starts.

 

Around a couple of months ago my 30 day WR went from around 60% to just under 50%, so I took a step back and started playing tier III tanks with < 100 battles on them ( primarily the Valentine AT & the AMX 38 both tanks I had struggled with previously). I'm a better player now and I did well with them both.

 

My WR dips heavily at tier IV (53.04%, down by over 3% from tier III).

Currently I have gone up a tier to the British Valentine and Alecto (just "discovered" the 25 pdr gun) and I do reasonably well and enjoy the fights. I do still dip my toe into tier VI of course but it depends on how bad my teams are as to if I stick around there (previous day I had 3 straight defeats despite doing over 1k damage in each)

 

Some call it seal clubbing but to me it's just folks being salty


When you can't walk, you crawl and when you can't crawl anymore somebody will carry you

 


talhaONE #12 Posted 14 January 2018 - 08:40 AM

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Buy an amx 38 or r35.

Jukkis74 #13 Posted 14 January 2018 - 08:43 AM

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Learning comes from insights, and new insights are very difficult without variety of situations. Get reasonably good at wide variety of lower tier tanks, high tiers will be much less punishing afterwards.

sixty_three #14 Posted 14 January 2018 - 09:03 AM

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View PostIrmaBecx, on 13 January 2018 - 10:55 PM, said:

......

What you could do is find a lower tier proxy that has a similar playstyle so you can practice the same manoeuvres. For the T-54 that might be the Lightweight, or Hype 59 if you got extremely lucky, which have the same hull and turret. Or, go back to something like the T-34-85 and practice the basics of Medium tank positioning.

......

 

You've succinctly articulated something here that I've tried, and previously largely failed to work out, or even name properly!  That is the process of finding a lower tier proxy.

 

Is there an old thread or article anywhere where people have listed out suitable proxies?  If not, what are the best set of key measures one needs to examine/perform calculations on, to say "X" is the best lower tier proxy for "Y".  Or even to say there isn't really a lower tier proxy for this particular tank?

 

If you'd like a specific example, what would you pick as a proxy for a Super Pershing?

 


Edited by sixty_three, 14 January 2018 - 09:03 AM.

For my military knowledge, though I'm plucky and adventury,
Has only been brought down to the beginning of the century;
But still in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a modern Major-General.

soulinthemachine #15 Posted 14 January 2018 - 09:42 AM

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View Postsixty_three, on 14 January 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

 

 

If you'd like a specific example, what would you pick as a proxy for a Super Pershing?

 

Most tanks with that type of frontal armour are heavies -is there another the same? Tier 7 goose tank same with slow rate of fire.t25 at?



albin747 #16 Posted 14 January 2018 - 02:35 PM

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Play the game how you want to. If you enjoy playng high tiers, then play high tiers. If you want to play mid-tiers and/or seal club, then go ahead and play mid tiers and/or seal club. This is just entertainment after all.

View Postsixty_three, on 14 January 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

 

If you'd like a specific example, what would you pick as a proxy for a Super Pershing?

 

Sherman jumbo is probably pretty close. Other than that heaviums with decent mobility in general I guess.



Gentleman_l8astard #17 Posted 14 January 2018 - 03:30 PM

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Meh, seal clubbin.  It’s fun for a while but not really a challenge.  I happen to like all tiers except tier I cuz ... blah.  It’s fun to play at tiers you are comfortable at to learn a little more, and always nice to dip into the tiers you struggle at as long as you learn from your mistakes there.

 

I have recorded some of the games and then watched it later and thought “why did I even think that move was a good idea”.  Sometimes when in the thick of it you forget about that un-spotted Heavy or that bush kemping TD, and after watching it later it’s so obvious you feel pretty dumb for not seeing it before.

 

Its important to play at tiers you feel comfortable with, and occasionally jump into the harder tiers and learn from what you do.



OLD_AND_RUSTY #18 Posted 14 January 2018 - 05:20 PM

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Easy credits. Fun to play if you don't play premium. Why keep bouncing on premium tanks and lose credits. Higher tiers are fun if you have a good premium tank. Then you have a fair chance. 

OLD_AND_RUSTY #19 Posted 14 January 2018 - 05:22 PM

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I play mostly tier III / IV. Was nr 4 of al EU players with my cruiser. Its a challenge to become nr 1. There are some very skilled players in those tiers and its fun if you play with or against them. The noobs are sitting ducks. 

Tijgerhaai_XVII #20 Posted 14 January 2018 - 06:03 PM

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View PostOLD_AND_RUSTY, on 14 January 2018 - 05:22 PM, said:

I play mostly tier III / IV. Was nr 4 of al EU players with my cruiser. Its a challenge to become nr 1. There are some very skilled players in those tiers and its fun if you play with or against them. The noobs are sitting ducks. 

Wait, aren't you the guy complaining you always get bad teams? At tier III? Gee, what are the odds?






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