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WG: How to improve Rating Battles

Rating Battles Ranked Battles Improvements

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jylpah #1 Posted 09 February 2018 - 03:21 AM

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Apologies for yet-another thread about Rating Battles, but I intend to edit the first post and list concrete improvement proposals here. If you have additional ideas, pls add to comments and I will edit the first post.

 

Dear WG,

 

Thank you for you efforts to improve the Rating Battles. There is still work to do and below are some improvement proposals for your consideration:

 

1) Make Rating adjustment points relative to players' XP received. At the moment zero-damage AFKs will receive roughly the same Rating increase/decrease than a player who carried the game. This change would likely have the ratings to converge faster.

 

2) Allow players to use whatever modules after they have researched all the modules. Several tanks have secondary modules that are preferred by players over the "top-module":

  • KV-4: Stock turret (lighter, better mobility)
  • IS: D10 T gun (faster aim time, higher DPM & pen)
  • M41 Bulldog: 76mm T91E5 auto-loader gun
  • LTTB: 85mm D5T-85BM gun (faster aim time)
  • KV-3: 100mm D10T gun (faster aim time)

 

3) Have MM to make sure that teams' average rating equals player's rating over number of battles. Otherwise a higher rating can mean a player will just get worse teams to balance the teams' average rating.

 

4) Eliminate Rating XP bonus from zero-contribution players to discourage AFK-griding in Rating mode.

 

5) Require players to have 100% crew in a tank to enter Rating Battles

 

6) Put equal number of "non-calibrated players" into teams and use a Rating-estimate based on their WR in equal tier tanks.

 

7) Limit the number of non-calibrated team members to max two per team

 

8) Simply MM rules to minimum to keep wait times long and have Rating Battles to have the same variety Random Battles have.

  • It is OK to limit the number of any tank class to max 5
  • More detailed tank type rules (Damage Interceptor, etc) may just cause too much wait time

Edited by jylpah, 26 February 2018 - 04:54 AM.

#CutTheCrapJustSendTheReplays

Jylpah @EU  Jylpah @Asia  Tier V-X Tank Ranking      Jylpah is SKUX


LanguishViking #2 Posted 09 February 2018 - 04:29 AM

    Senior Sergeant

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If you have your tank elited you should just pick whatever modules you prefer. I think the original issue was with people using ratings battles to grind. I like the second from top gun with the LTTB for the extra gun depression for a small loss in pen and rof.  


jylpah #3 Posted 09 February 2018 - 05:43 AM

    First Sergeant

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View PostLanguishViking, on 09 February 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

If you have your tank elited you should just pick whatever modules you prefer. I think the original issue was with people using ratings battles to grind. I like the second from top gun with the LTTB for the extra gun depression for a small loss in pen and rof.  

 

Good point! Fixed.

#CutTheCrapJustSendTheReplays

Jylpah @EU  Jylpah @Asia  Tier V-X Tank Ranking      Jylpah is SKUX


ACEofSPADES1972 #4 Posted 09 February 2018 - 07:53 AM

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My recommendation: don’t mix the already rated players with players who are still in the calibration process....

ACEofSPADES1972 #5 Posted 09 February 2018 - 08:22 AM

    Lance-corporal

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This is why they shouldn’t mix rated with non-rated players:

 

 

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  • Attached File   7AE11A97-A2E8-4B31-9BB2-AF4FDE25130B.jpeg   165.37K


ACEofSPADES1972 #6 Posted 09 February 2018 - 08:27 AM

    Lance-corporal

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Regarding the picture in my previous post:

 

- 2 of the unrated players had substantially lower winratio’s

- the „driver” of the Premium German beast has only 875 games under his belt

 

The opponent’s team was well balanced, which shows also in the amounts of damage per player. We got hammered, imo because of the unrated players...



Acids_Burn #7 Posted 09 February 2018 - 10:47 AM

    First Sergeant

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View Postjylpah, on 09 February 2018 - 05:21 AM, said:

Apologies for yet-another thread about Rating Battles, but I intend to edit the first post and list concrete improvement proposals here. If you have additional ideas, pls add to comments and I will edit the first post.

 

Dear WG,

 

Thank you for you efforts to improve the Rating Battles. There is still work to do and below are some improvement proposals for your consideration:

 

1) Make Rating adjustment points relative to players' XP received. At the moment zero-damage AFKs will receive roughly the same Rating increase/decrease than a player who carried the game. This change would likely have the ratings to converge faster.

 

2) Allow players to use whatever modules after they have researched all the modules. Several tanks have secondary modules that are preferred by players over the "top-module":

  • KV-4: Stock turret (lighter, better mobility)
  • IS: D10 T gun (faster aim time, higher DPM & pen)
  • M41 Bulldog: 76mm T91E5 auto-loader gun
  • LTTB: 85mm D5T-85BM gun (faster aim time)
  • KV-3: 100mm D10T gun (faster aim time)

 

3) Have MM to make sure that teams' average rating equals player's rating over number of battles. Otherwise a higher rating can mean a player will just get worse teams to balance the teams' average rating.

 

4) Eliminate Rating XP bonus from zero-contribution players to discourage AFK-griding in Rating mode.

 

5) Require players to have 100% crew in a tank to enter Rating Battles

 

I really want to add this - make the leagues matter - if you are in gold league your team and your opponents should be consisted of players who are in gold league. When you move to platinum league same rule goes there - you meet only players from platinum league etc.

 

Also i want to know why some premium tanks can not use alternative guns to enter rating battles. I.e. jag 8.8 can not use the 8.8cm gun and the is6 can not use the old gun (idk its name - i dont have an is6)


Edited by Acids_Burn, 09 February 2018 - 10:51 AM.

 I do know that the way i express myself to some, if not most, people sound a bit too...aggressive? salty? rude?... but this is the way i speak and the way my thought train rolls...so...yeah...i'm not trying to insult anyone or pick up any fights.

">http://www.blitzstar...u/532956899.png[/img][/url]                    


Acids_Burn #8 Posted 09 February 2018 - 10:48 AM

    First Sergeant

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View PostACEofSPADES1972, on 09 February 2018 - 10:22 AM, said:

This is why they shouldn’t mix rated with non-rated players:

 

 

Are you really playing wotb on a monochrome display?


 I do know that the way i express myself to some, if not most, people sound a bit too...aggressive? salty? rude?... but this is the way i speak and the way my thought train rolls...so...yeah...i'm not trying to insult anyone or pick up any fights.

">http://www.blitzstar...u/532956899.png[/img][/url]                    


albin747 #9 Posted 09 February 2018 - 10:49 AM

    Sergeant

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It's weird to me how the same rating is shared across all tiers. Someone who's good at tier 7 rating battles is also assumed to be just as good at playing tier 10 as far as the matchmaker is concerned. I think it would make more sense if there were separate ratings, either one for every tier or you could group together some tiers (7-8, 9-10 etc.)

 

A consequence this would have however is that many players would want to have high ratings in several (or all) possible tiers. This would of course mean you need to play a lot more matches. For this reason it might also be a good idea to increase the rating yield if a system like this is implemented.



ACEofSPADES1972 #10 Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:24 AM

    Lance-corporal

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View PostAcids_Burn, on 09 February 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

Are you really playing wotb on a monochrome display?

 

No :)

The size of iPad screenshots are too big in size to attach, changing them into b/w does the job....



jylpah #11 Posted 09 February 2018 - 01:24 PM

    First Sergeant

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View Postalbin747, on 09 February 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

It's weird to me how the same rating is shared across all tiers. Someone who's good at tier 7 rating battles is also assumed to be just as good at playing tier 10 as far as the matchmaker is concerned. I think it would make more sense if there were separate ratings, either one for every tier or you could group together some tiers (7-8, 9-10 etc.)

 

A consequence this would have however is that many players would want to have high ratings in several (or all) possible tiers. This would of course mean you need to play a lot more matches. For this reason it might also be a good idea to increase the rating yield if a system like this is implemented.

 

Yes, that is weird. So will Rating be as useless as Global WR in the end? And Statspadders will occupy tier VII now. Poor seals.

 

Btw. The Record -> Rating shows your played Rating Battles per tier.


#CutTheCrapJustSendTheReplays

Jylpah @EU  Jylpah @Asia  Tier V-X Tank Ranking      Jylpah is SKUX


Cancracker #12 Posted 09 February 2018 - 03:40 PM

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View Postjylpah, on 09 February 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

 

Yes, that is weird. So will Rating be as useless as Global WR in the end? And Statspadders will occupy tier VII now. Poor seals.

 

Btw. The Record -> Rating shows your played Rating Battles per tier.

 

Yes, that a problem cause in the beginning I looked at the win rate of players to see if I was placed in a weaker team but this was not always evident as weak top tier players usually stat pad in lower ones so I had to look deeper to find the desired data. This changed since the rating battles were introduced as I saw the league at a glance. Now probably I have to double check the rating by looking at the number of rating battles, so again more clicks are needed.

"X 5 weekend, 10 games 9 losses ...
Some seals will be getting sooooo clubbed in the next couple of weeks."
                                                                                                             jonty_2014


jylpah #13 Posted 26 February 2018 - 04:54 AM

    First Sergeant

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8) Simply MM rules to minimum to keep wait times long and have Rating Battles to have the same variety Random Battles have.

  • It is OK to limit the number of any tank class to max 5
  • More detailed tank type rules (Damage Interceptor, etc) may just cause too much wait time

#CutTheCrapJustSendTheReplays

Jylpah @EU  Jylpah @Asia  Tier V-X Tank Ranking      Jylpah is SKUX


Player_3538429276 #14 Posted 03 March 2018 - 07:01 AM

    First Sergeant

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No Aces in the Silver and Bronze leagues. 

Player_3538429276 #15 Posted 03 March 2018 - 02:09 PM

    First Sergeant

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WTH these 4000 rank guys are doing in my Calibration? :trollface:

 

22E5AF36-73AC-4A1E-AAC0-BF865AAD77F2.jpegBB6A8384-DD86-4ECF-8D23-16FA0CA7F739.png



karasahin1923 #16 Posted 04 March 2018 - 12:10 PM

    Private

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I totally agree with Jylpah. I had the same rating point problem also. . For example when I play a battle and win, I make highest damage but I get the same amount of rating point with lowest damaged one. This is not fair . I think rating points should be given as high as your contrubition to the game like XP. I mean more active player Ishould get more rating points and vice versa.​ The same think is valid when I lost game. I made highest damage but I lost more rating points than minimum damaged team member with the same rating as me. In this case must I made lesser damage or play less active for not lose more points ?Rating mecanism should be reconsider I think.

 



jylpah #17 Posted 04 March 2018 - 01:32 PM

    First Sergeant

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So that people understand it, WG is trying to implement Elo-rating system for Blitz. Elo-rating system was originally developed for Chess by Arpad Elo. The practice that your up-down points depend only from loss/win and your rating vs. the opposing team derives from the Elo system. However, Elo was developed for two player chess where it was darn clear that you lost just because you did not play as well as the enemy, in multiplayer games it gets more complicated and I think WG has not cracked the nut yet. There is lot of hard math behind the Elo rating system and we must also appreciate the challenge WG is facing. I posted to the MM-whine-and-cry thread this link discussing Microsoft's patented TruSkill multiplayer rating system. It's a looooong article, but if you are interested more about the topic, have look at this article : http://www.moserware.com/2010/03/computing-your-skill.html

#CutTheCrapJustSendTheReplays

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Player_3538429276 #18 Posted 04 March 2018 - 05:10 PM

    First Sergeant

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It’s exactly opposite. I carried more than others, but my reward is less! Why +19? :trollface: They wouldn’t get +20 without me! 

 

F69E8B14-5F7D-426E-9001-E651FE49BD6F.jpeg

 



jylpah #19 Posted 05 March 2018 - 03:51 AM

    First Sergeant

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View PostRukMakto, on 05 March 2018 - 01:10 AM, said:

It’s exactly opposite. I carried more than others, but my reward is less! Why +19? :trollface: They wouldn’t get +20 without me! 

 

F69E8B14-5F7D-426E-9001-E651FE49BD6F.jpeg

 

 

Since your rating is higher than your team's, therefore you get less points from a victory.

#CutTheCrapJustSendTheReplays

Jylpah @EU  Jylpah @Asia  Tier V-X Tank Ranking      Jylpah is SKUX


Player_3538429276 #20 Posted 05 March 2018 - 11:47 AM

    First Sergeant

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Calibration must be improved. Now it’s crap. 

 

3500 rating zone. 2 battles at 11:06 and 11:21. 

 

A0E0F641-5E3F-470A-955E-2BDDFBE9DAC0.jpeg

 

11:06 - doesn’t belong to Ranked games

62%, 53%, 44%, 61%, 48%, 57%, 57% - 45%, 45%, 51%, 46%, 48%, 49%, 48%

 

D3EB8178-3BDF-42B0-8FBC-FB28F1434112.jpeg

 

11:21 - very interesting game, a reason to play Ranked games

62%, 60%, 54%, 55%, 77%, 60%, 47% - 70%, 62%, 65%, 44%, 50%, 52%, 63%

 

75B89A37-C70D-43BA-B9FD-45FD38C8AEEC.jpeg

 







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