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DW2 Test


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Guard_Of_Justitia #1 Posted 12 February 2018 - 07:46 PM

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If you all remember, I did a semi rant/analysis thread on whether the DW2 is OP. I'd like to conduct some testing regarding this and report my findings

 

I would like volunteers to help me do so. They will need one of these tanks

 

  1. the DW2 itself- must have at least one
  2. M5 Stuart
  3. B1
  4. Pz.B2
  5. Matilda
  6. Pz III
  7. SU-85b, Ideally want one
  8. T-28
  9. M3 Lee, Ideally want one

 

If anyone would like to do so, please reply below. I will ensure that any credit losses are minimal during this training room :)

 


 

 


IrmaBecx #2 Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:12 PM

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So I have a question.

 

One of the ways in which the Death Wagen is strong is you have access to three useable rounds, AP, APCR, and HE. At lower tiers this is not always the case; HE rounds especially can be pretty useless on lower caliber guns.

 

A better player will know, for example, which tanks can be penetrated frontally with HE rounds, and that is one way they maximise their damage output. How would you test something like this in a training room, and, by extension, how would you balance it, if you do indeed find the D.W. 2 puts out so much damage as to be overpowered?


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talhaONE #3 Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:19 PM

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I have;

M5 stuart
B1
Matilda
Su85b
T28
M3 lee

when we are doing the test?

Guard_Of_Justitia #4 Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:25 PM

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View PostIrmaBecx, on 12 February 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

So I have a question.

 

One of the ways in which the Death Wagen is strong is you have access to three useable rounds, AP, APCR, and HE. At lower tiers this is not always the case; HE rounds especially can be pretty useless on lower caliber guns.

 

A better player will know, for example, which tanks can be penetrated frontally with HE rounds, and that is one way they maximise their damage output. How would you test something like this in a training room, and, by extension, how would you balance it, if you do indeed find the D.W. 2 puts out so much damage as to be overpowered?

 

Right now that is exactly a difficult thing to try out- But for now I'll do straight dpm fights in a practical sense 

 

I'll stick with AP, because HE is unreliable and APCR is low dpm than AP


Edited by Guard_Of_Justitia, 12 February 2018 - 08:25 PM.

 

 


Guard_Of_Justitia #5 Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:27 PM

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View PosttalhaONE, on 12 February 2018 - 08:19 PM, said:

I have;

M5 stuart
B1
Matilda
Su85b
T28
M3 lee

when we are doing the test?

 

Tomorrow?

I'll specify time later


 

 


reekoiler #6 Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:29 PM

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I see no need for a test.   Just look at the tank’s stats compared with others.
Knickerson, my apologies.

Guard_Of_Justitia #7 Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:35 PM

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View Postreekoiler, on 12 February 2018 - 08:29 PM, said:

I see no need for a test.   Just look at the tank’s stats compared with others.

 

If you find my thread, I have done so

 

I'd like to see in a practical perspective


 

 


Hippopotamaus #8 Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:58 PM

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View PostGuard_Of_Justitia, on 12 February 2018 - 08:35 PM, said:

 

If you find my thread, I have done so

 

I'd like to see in a practical perspective

 

We all remember your original thread. It ran for ever - and by the end of it you had managed to convince a massive 28% of people that the DW2 was op.

 

So two weeks and a name change later you are back to waste our time again with a ‘practical’ demonstration that will demonstrate nothing of worth.

 

Good luck with the trolling. I will be focusing on threads that have some merit.

 


Edited by Hippopotamaus, 12 February 2018 - 08:59 PM.


Guard_Of_Justitia #9 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:16 PM

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View PostHippopotamaus, on 12 February 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:

 

We all remember your original thread. It ran for ever - and by the end of it you had managed to convince a massive 28% of people that the DW2 was op.

 

So two weeks and a name change later you are back to waste our time again with a ‘practical’ demonstration that will demonstrate nothing of worth.

 

Good luck with the trolling. I will be focusing on threads that have some merit.

 

 

I was wondering when you would show up...

 

And no, I have been active even after the name change- maybe you didnt notice. 

 

Considering your last statement- If you dont find this to have merit, why post?


 

 


reekoiler #10 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:40 PM

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View PostGuard_Of_Justitia, on 12 February 2018 - 08:35 PM, said:

 

If you find my thread, I have done so

 

I'd like to see in a practical perspective

 

Just play the tank then.
Knickerson, my apologies.

Guard_Of_Justitia #11 Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:50 PM

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View Postreekoiler, on 12 February 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

 

Just play the tank then.

 

Something called 'controlled' conditions is how I want it to test in- i dont think an amx elc would be helpful in a one vs one testing

 

 


Cornish_Dyowl #12 Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:22 PM

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Winters_2014 #13 Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:27 PM

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armour + 150 ish alpha + decent ROF + pen hmm:hiding:

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Neaul_YouTube #14 Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:36 PM

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View PostCornish_Dyowl, on 12 February 2018 - 10:22 PM, said:

 

Exactly this

IrmaBecx #15 Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:43 PM

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View PostGuard_Of_Justitia, on 12 February 2018 - 10:25 PM, said:

 

Right now that is exactly a difficult thing to try out- But for now I'll do straight dpm fights in a practical sense 

 

I'll stick with AP, because HE is unreliable and APCR is low dpm than AP

 

That's fair enough; AP is the bread and butter of Death Wagen 2 gameplay anyway.

 

But do yourself a favor and look through all your tier III, IV and V targets in Armour Inspector with the HE loaded, because you will pen a lot more of them frontally with High Explosive than you think. Good players either know this, or are quick enough to switch to HE and check the hitskin before they fire. They will also switch to APCR without thinking against something like a KV-1, because they count on their superior gameplay to outweigh the DPM loss. This basically means a good player will always use the optimal ammunition, or close enough anyway.

 

I am keeping quite busy with the new site and the Chinese Mediums, but if you are missing a tank for testing, I do have a press account with basically every tank in the game on it, so in a pinch I will help you out. And yeah, that includes Kenny-the-Original-Tokyo-Thug. Not just the weak tech tree version.


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onlypainhurts #16 Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:57 AM

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View PostGuard_Of_Justitia, on 12 February 2018 - 10:50 PM, said:

 

Something called 'controlled' conditions is how I want it to test in- i dont think an amx elc would be helpful in a one vs one testing

 

​There is nothing practical about this idea,  The game is not "controlled conditions"  unless you are in a training room you don't get to pick what tanks you will play against.  Limiting what tanks you include is a sure fire way to guarantee that any results you get are worthless.    Only nub vs nub is a straight dpm fight.  As we all know having the highest dpm doesn't guarantee you will win.   

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Mjr_Eazy #17 Posted 13 February 2018 - 07:11 AM

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What’s the idea you play say 20 games in each tank in 1 vs 1 in training room and swap tanks every 5 games say to try and even out player & rng effects?   Or something else?  

 

I just think that better player does best in what-ever tank they’re in, although I guess if you have a potato like me in DW2 vs a Unicum or Super Unicum in something else and I win more than I lose it shows some OP’ness for DW2?  I’d be prepared to bet money though that will not happen in real game conditions.   As others have said and I’m inclined to agree I’m not convinced this will prove anything but go for it.  What time you planning to do it and if youre on when I am and want a potato to mash I’m game...


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Gentleman_l8astard #18 Posted 13 February 2018 - 07:26 AM

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I struggle to find the point of this experiment.  Yeah, you can jump into a training room and throw a hand full of tanks against a DW2 and laugh at the results, but there are hundreds of factors you cannot even begin to control, like RNG for starters.  The other question is will this be a “meet at the bike racks after school” type thing?  I mean do you pull both teams up in rows like the Musketeers back in the day, or will it be an actual “game game type game”?  If it’s the first, what’s the point?  If it’s the second ... what’s the point?  One player (or players) might be better in the DW (and tanks in general) and mop the floor with the reds.  Another player might not be so good in the DW (and tanks in general) and get rolled over.

 

How do you expect to create “controlled” results while using only a partial list of tanks the DW can face, and basically throwing them into a “random” battle and see what happens.  Simply because it’s a training room, and therefore “controlled”? Imo, the hundreds of thousands of games played globally in the DW presents an infinity of data that is easier to find and analyze than 20 games from a cherry picked list of tanks to fight against in a training room, where the hardest thing to measure is still the biggest factor, player skill.

 

If you are really interested in being through about it check out:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method


Edited by Black__Legion, 13 February 2018 - 07:36 AM.


Guard_Of_Justitia #19 Posted 13 February 2018 - 07:39 AM

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When I wanted to describe a controlled conditions I referred to having only a one vs one test in a training room

 

rng is something out of reach but besides it affects any tank

 


 

 


ACEofSPADES1972 #20 Posted 13 February 2018 - 07:59 AM

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Imo the only possible way to determine whether or not a tank is OP, are statistics... If you would look at the performance of DW2 in comparison with other tier4 tanks per player, I think you will see that the majority of players scores better with DW2 than with most other  tier4 tanks. I guess you would see the same with A20...

 

Another way to look at it, is looking what sealclubbers are using when they are creating havoc in the lower ranks. You see a lot of strong platoons with A20 and DW2. Would these very good and experienced players use anything else than the best?






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