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Down is the new up


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reekoiler #1 Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:13 PM

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I know, I know.   You should always go up on Middleburg.   But.   Four heavies v three, I am in the Type 62 Dragon (gold noob that I am).   If I say ‘up’ some might, some might not.   The reds will almost certainly have a plus.   So I say ‘city’ and the dopey heavies are only too glad to agree.   An unequal struggle ensues with their outnumbered and outflanked muppet heavies (who should have gone up) and they die.   The red right wing meanwhile bites on fresh air and finally, having fought my way through the town, I go up the other side!   And there I survey the whole battlefield, which is very clearly ours.

 

 



IrmaBecx #2 Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:57 PM

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Agreed

 

I sometimes go city in Supremacy on Middleburg if we have a Heavy advantage. Heavys take one cap while Mediums and Lights harass the other, and then we kill any contesters there. Pull back, and wait for the red team to run out of patience on the hill, or if there's just a few of them, go up and wipe them out.

 

Trouble is, people don't always know to hide from incoming fire from the hill, because they've never been up there. But it has been known to work :)


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reekoiler #3 Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:02 PM

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View PostIrmaBecx, on 14 February 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

Agreed

 

I sometimes go city in Supremacy on Middleburg if we have a Heavy advantage. Heavys take one cap while Mediums and Lights harass the other, and then we kill any contesters there. Pull back, and wait for the red team to run out of patience on the hill, or if there's just a few of them, go up and wipe them out.

 

Trouble is, people don't always know to hide from incoming fire from the hill, because they've never been up there. But it has been known to work :)

Mine was encounter, but I agree.   I like sniping at B when we are taking A.

 

 



Chairman_merpug #4 Posted 14 February 2018 - 06:19 PM

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View PosttalhaONE, on 14 February 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:

Dont complain when you use op tank.You deserved that defeat.

What on earth are you talking about?


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soulinthemachine #5 Posted 14 February 2018 - 06:21 PM

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View PosttalhaONE, on 14 February 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:

Dont complain when you use op tank.You deserved that defeat.

 

He won it if you read the post . Some people post positive stuff- not just whinges.

talhaONE #6 Posted 14 February 2018 - 07:12 PM

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View Postsoulinthemachine, on 14 February 2018 - 08:21 PM, said:

 

He won it if you read the post . Some people post positive stuff- not just whinges.

Nope i didnt even read the post.I just saw the type62 word and stopped reading.



reekoiler #7 Posted 14 February 2018 - 07:30 PM

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View PosttalhaONE, on 14 February 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

Nope i didnt even read the post.I just saw the type62 word and stopped reading.

 

LOL something to bear in mind when reading your posts.   No, the point of the story was that we won by not going up, a rare instance when it was correct to depart from ‘best’ play.

 

You are right that the T62 is OP but not when I play it.   Just about 50% with great games mixed with noobish ones.   It is great fun, though, and money well spent, not least because it prints money.



RA1D_SCHNITZEL_ #8 Posted 14 February 2018 - 08:23 PM

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In supremacy going hill is stupid. You will just lose valuable time and then have to rush town as fast as possible. Its ok for your meds to quickly cap C if the enemy has no or a clearly inferior number of fast tanks but then meds should quickly come to assist heavies in town. If you are a heavy and your meds are at C dont go deep into town but go to a position (after capping b/a) where hill meds can support you.

In encounter games there is no clear favorite. Hill is only good if reds are stupid enough to try to trade vs the hill guys. Put 1-2tanks into cap and city gets the advantage. 


 

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IrmaBecx #9 Posted 14 February 2018 - 08:27 PM

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View Postsuperschnitzelkoenig, on 14 February 2018 - 10:23 PM, said:

In supremacy going hill is stupid. 

 

Well sure, but it all depends on the team setup. If you can clear the hill and cap the hill cap fast, then hit the reds from the back while they're busy fighting your Heavys, it's a viable option.


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Cancracker #10 Posted 14 February 2018 - 08:32 PM

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View Postsuperschnitzelkoenig, on 14 February 2018 - 08:23 PM, said:

In supremacy going hill is stupid. You will just lose valuable time and then have to rush town as fast as possible. Its ok for your meds to quickly cap C if the enemy has no or a clearly inferior number of fast tanks but then meds should quickly come to assist heavies in town. If you are a heavy and your meds are at C dont go deep into town but go to a position (after capping b/a) where hill meds can support you.

In encounter games there is no clear favorite. Hill is only good if reds are stupid enough to try to trade vs the hill guys. Put 1-2tanks into cap and city gets the advantage. 

 

It depends who is on your team and what will they do. And to say it's unequivocally stupid to go up the hill is simply wrong. Going up always has an advantage. The players that are down, even with 2 bases usually lose because you just need to get one tank down to fire on the spotted tanks to get them out of position and then they will be shot from above too. Also you can go down in a team either at base A or base B. The Reds need to be spread out. I won many more battles going up than down because usually the noob goimg up is favored against the noob staying down. If all go to the city I still go up alone and hit their rear although that's not so efficient if the team dies like flies. So going up is always better cause at worst you meet all Reds while at best you can take out 2-3 tanks without losing one. You already have a 2 tank advantage which coupled with being up trumps 2 bases. I have rarely lost such battles.

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reekoiler #11 Posted 15 February 2018 - 05:03 AM

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View PostJJSawry, on 14 February 2018 - 11:02 PM, said:

From what I can tell, the legitimacy of going city gets affected too much by people's inability to tell when is the right time to push hard, and when it's time to stop pushing at all. I'm sure you've seen the games where heavies go through town and then keep going and going. Or games where 4 people hold 7 back until the flank hits.

 

I agree.   Best play in WoTB is heavily affected by the quality of the players, which is kinda the point of my opening post.   What turned out to be a good idea would not have been so great had the reds stuck together, which is basic plan A on all maps in all situations.

Bjorngisli #12 Posted 15 February 2018 - 05:32 AM

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I almost always go city in supremacy and push on the opposite cap there. Works most of the time

jylpah #13 Posted 15 February 2018 - 08:29 AM

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Going town in encounter mode works also if you have some heavy armored tanks like Maus, T95 which can can, can-can, can can cap while the desperate reds try to reset the cap one by one only to meet 155mm of love.

 

There are other maps too where Supremacy changes the meta: Black Goldville, Oasis Palms and Rockfield and come to my mind first. If our team has decent heavies, I prefer to go town on Black Goldville and cap BC. On Rockfield my favorite is is to cap AB. Few meds can quickly cap B and run. Resetting that later on is costly. On Oasis Palms the same - cap AB and win by cap points.

 

The only challenge with these plans that it is difficult for the teams to not to push. Many players do not understand how sometimes the best plan is just to wait.


Edited by jylpah, 15 February 2018 - 09:23 AM.

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Tijgerhaai_XIV #14 Posted 15 February 2018 - 08:38 AM

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The Maus can can-can?

But can it can-can like Cancracker can-can can?





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jylpah #15 Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:24 AM

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View PostTijgerhaai_XIV, on 15 February 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

The Maus can can-can?

But can it can-can like Cancracker can-can can?

 

Can you please explain what do you mean? can-can, you?

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soulinthemachine #16 Posted 15 February 2018 - 10:09 AM

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Crack cans?

RA1D_SCHNITZEL_ #17 Posted 15 February 2018 - 10:28 AM

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Ok maybe I've been misunderstood. I meant going "all up" in supremacy is stupid. Especially if you have several slow tanks. Cap points on middleburg go extremely fast so unless you can take out 2-3 noobish enemy meds at C you usually will be too slow to be back in town in force to stop the enemy team from winning. So what happens is either your team stays with the slow tanks and you lose by caps after a short battle or your fast tanks rush forward and meet a well-dug-in 7-tank-enemy in town. Either way you have a massive disadvantage that can only be made up for by a far better skilled team.

 

However, as I've said, there is nothing to be said against SOME teammembers going for a careful cap at C, while the Heavies and TDs cap their town base. With that of course it's important that the town people stay in a position where they can be supported. 

 

So basically this is bad:

 

And this is good:

 


 

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Cancracker #18 Posted 15 February 2018 - 10:37 AM

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View Postsuperschnitzelkoenig, on 15 February 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

Ok maybe I've been misunderstood. I meant going "all up" in supremacy is stupid. Especially if you have several slow tanks. Cap points on middleburg go extremely fast so unless you can take out 2-3 noobish enemy meds at C you usually will be too slow to be back in town in force to stop the enemy team from winning. So what happens is either your team stays with the slow tanks and you lose by caps after a short battle or your fast tanks rush forward and meet a well-dug-in 7-tank-enemy in town. Either way you have a massive disadvantage that can only be made up for by a far better skilled team.

 

However, as I've said, there is nothing to be said against SOME teammembers going for a careful cap at C, while the Heavies and TDs cap their town base. With that of course it's important that the town people stay in a position where they can be supported. 

 

If you are talking about tournaments then I agree but when noob teams confront each other some don't even cap both bases in the city because they rush to shoot the team that's on the hill. And 7 well dug in? Come on... Noobs peek out sideways from behind corners or stay totally exposed, they kill the heavies in town but don't cap the other base. Or at least I get those teams. Maybe you have a different experience in random battles or speak about ranked and tournaments.


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RA1D_SCHNITZEL_ #19 Posted 15 February 2018 - 11:23 AM

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View PostCancracker, on 15 February 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

 

If you are talking about tournaments then I agree but when noob teams confront each other some don't even cap both bases in the city because they rush to shoot the team that's on the hill. And 7 well dug in? Come on... Noobs peek out sideways from behind corners or stay totally exposed, they kill the heavies in town but don't cap the other base. Or at least I get those teams. Maybe you have a different experience in random battles or speak about ranked and tournaments.

 

Of course this is especially true in CWs but it holds some truth even in randoms. So if you ask me what I do in randoms:

 

Encounter:

 

Green more fast tanks than Red => All up

Green more heavy tanks than Red and I'm in a fast tank: I spot up and fall back to town if necessary.

Green more heavy tanks than Red and I'm in a Heavy: I go to town and cap, unless someone says all up or a majority of my heavies turns up, then I go up.

 

Supremacy:

 

Green more fast tanks than Red and I'm in a fast tank => I take C and then support town

Green more fast tanks than Red and I'm in a heavy tank => I take A/B and then stay at the outer part of the town and defend A/B with support from the hill

Green more heavy tanks and I'm in a fast tank => I spot C and fall back to town if necessary. 

Green more heavy tanks and I'm in a heavy tank => I take A/B and push on to B/A.

 

Easy, isn't it? :teethhappy: Btw. just had a 7150-dmg-game in my STB-1 this morning on Middleburg. Both teams went all up. :trollface:


Edited by superschnitzelkoenig, 15 February 2018 - 11:24 AM.

 

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Peddy_tanj_it #20 Posted 15 February 2018 - 11:30 AM

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Overall I find that going up is usually the best option including in supremency.

 

With the a few exceptions.  

 

The green team has all TD'S and Heavies whilst the red team has at least 3 lights mediums then it's a stay in town. Occupy the town cap/caps and watch/defend the rear as that is where the flanking mediums and lights are likely to come from. 

Avoid the direct line of sight form the hills past the church to the centre of the cap circle when it is in encounter mode as that gets sniped form the hills. 

 

If the green team has a very slow TD or Heavy and by all going up you will sacrifice that tank as it tries to hold off the Reds in the city such as the Doom Turtle or similar and that is one of your top tier tanks then unless the Reds have all mediums then it is worth the town. If there is only one slow tank/TD and it is a low tier then it might be worth while to go up and sacrifice the slow heavy hoping that they can delay the Reds whilst the rest of the greens agressivly flank. 

 

Of course this all depends upon the greens acting in a reasonably manner and everybody knows that is a rare occurrence. 


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