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Spinney_FL #21 Posted 29 May 2018 - 07:51 AM

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Why not just call them rubbish or bad players rather than use insulting language. By calling them an imbecile you imply that they are below normal intelligence. They maybe very intelligent but just useless at the game. I had one player message me after a battle saying "bad decision mate". He was spot on I made a bad choice, I thanked him. If he had messaged me calling me an imbecile I would have bad mouthed him back & not learned a thing. Perhaps we should all be a bit more constructive in our criticism & not be so ready to throw insults at each other. If someone bad mouths you by all means bad mouth them back.

Tijgerhaai_XIV #22 Posted 29 May 2018 - 07:56 AM

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View PostUzless42, on 29 May 2018 - 08:51 AM, said:

Why not just call them rubbish or bad players rather than use insulting language. By calling them an imbecile you imply that they are below normal intelligence. They maybe very intelligent but just useless at the game. I had one player message me after a battle saying "bad decision mate". He was spot on I made a bad choice, I thanked him. If he had messaged me calling me an imbecile I would have bad mouthed him back & not learned a thing. Perhaps we should all be a bit more constructive in our criticism & not be so ready to throw insults at each other. If someone bad mouths you by all means bad mouth them back.

 

What is this heresy? We should act like decent human beings? It'll never catch on.

 


Mjr_Eazy #23 Posted 29 May 2018 - 04:22 PM

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View PostUzless42, on 29 May 2018 - 07:51 AM, said:

Why not just call them rubbish or bad players rather than use insulting language. By calling them an imbecile you imply that they are below normal intelligence. They maybe very intelligent but just useless at the game. I had one player message me after a battle saying "bad decision mate". He was spot on I made a bad choice, I thanked him. If he had messaged me calling me an imbecile I would have bad mouthed him back & not learned a thing. Perhaps we should all be a bit more constructive in our criticism & not be so ready to throw insults at each other. If someone bad mouths you by all means bad mouth them back.

You’re still pretty new round here (guessing by number of posts), you’ll get used to The Player Forrmerly Known as RuktMakto, he’s not one of our more reasoned posters...


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Mjr_Eazy #24 Posted 29 May 2018 - 08:42 PM

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View PostPlayer_3538429276, on 29 May 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

 

Lol. I say how it is without pink glasses. Some imbeciles play 10k-50k games and learn nothing. Always camp or yolo, but never learn a thing. They ruin fun for me, I call them imbeciles and let’s call it even. 

 

Lol, sure, I’m one of your imbeciles :)

I’ve no issue with straight talking just think in this case, a good player like you could help more by giving a few bits of advice to those players rather than name calling...


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premiumtankonly #25 Posted 29 May 2018 - 09:27 PM

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View PostSettler77, on 24 May 2018 - 07:13 AM, said:

sry man i am the one typing loosers when i see loosers, i dont take that as insult since we loose the game, we must be loosers, the truth is that i blame WG for the toxicity in game, truly if the MM was just a bit better i believe that there will be less toxicity, i do understand there are players not so skillful but why do i get 5 of them in my team 10-20 battles in row?, why they not on the otherside of the game? a lot of this frustration comes from this, but my team is the easiest to blame, eventhoug its not their mistake,they dont play well, the mistake is in distribution of these players betwenn players, but this comes down to basic mechanics of the game, as long as the MM will work this way, there will be toxicity...

 

PS for me bigger insult is when somebody types "easy" from the opposing team after such a battle! that is more disrespectful than calling loosing team looosers ,-) 

 

well if someone types looser at me I just assume they want me to slacken my belt a notch, but then again I seem to be one of the few people who know how to spell these days.

sixty_three #26 Posted 29 May 2018 - 10:19 PM

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The following data was obtained from the currently defunct Wotbstars website last year.

 

Players with at least 1,000 battles with overall WR of 40-45%

 

Percentage of total players with 1000+ battles = 10.8%

Average hit rate = 67%

Top Gun awards per battle = 1.85%

Survival rate = 26.17%

 

Players with at least 10,000 battles with overall WR of 40-45%

 

Percentage of total players with 10,000+ battles = 3.9%

Average hit rate = 73.7%

Top Gun awards per battle = 2.00%

Survival rate = 26.71%

 

Players on average therefore become more effective as they play more battles.  Probably due to a combination of these reasons:

 

a) The very weakest players proportionately quit the game more than any other skill group;

b) Eventually nearly everybody learns how to shoot better;

c) The vehicles that the 10,000+ battle brigade use benefit from higher crew skill levels than their 1,000+ battle counterparts.

 


One of life’s challenges — knowing enough to think you are right, but not enough to know that you are wrong.

 


sixty_three #27 Posted 30 May 2018 - 05:48 AM

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View PostPlayer_3538429276, on 30 May 2018 - 05:19 AM, said:

OMG. Try to be more critical with your conclusions. What tanks are played by players with 1000 games. Average hit rates of tier I-IV tanks vs V+ tanks? When wotbstars was alive, most players had “unacceptable color” for their hit rates (below 80%) and worked hard on fixing it with specific tanks. Precision of low tier tanks, tanks preferences & gameplay (shooting from the spawn in heavies), playing without equipment and crew skill contribute most to % of hit rates. 

 

According to the Blitz Stars “Tank Averages” webpage, there appears to be some correlation between tank tier and hit rate.  

E.g. MS-1 58.61%. BT-7 65.91%. M3 Lee 70.17%. Wolverine 75.93% and so on up to T110E5, 86.21%. There are some outlier results, but the trend is basically upwards.

 

Yes, one argument is that the guns are getting more accurate.  The other is that the higher tier tanks are being proportionately played more by the most experienced players.  Which is the correct explanation?  In the absence of other data, most probably it’s a combination of both reasons.  

 

Apart from shooting skills, I know of no other statistic that directly measures skill.  Sidescraping ability? Map knowledge? Who knows.

All you can then comment about is your own performance.  Have you got better as time has passed?  I have.  And if others only improve to the extent that they transition from being “utterly useless” to being a 40-45% player, well good for them.  

 


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sixty_three #28 Posted 30 May 2018 - 06:07 AM

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View PostPlayer_3538429276, on 30 May 2018 - 05:32 AM, said:

 

I don’t know, I’ve never seen your current gameplay. 

 

You don’t have to be a good shooter for a good winrate. Moving to the right direction/position based on lineups will reward you with 60%+ wr at I-VII tiers and 58%+ wr at VIII tier. That is simple and easy - you see lineups, figure out where the battle is going to happen, and go to the best position for your tank. What most imbeciles do wrong is going to “positions of good memories” ignoring lineups and tanks they are currently playing. They continue to do that for thousands of games and ruin fun for other players. 

 

Poor shooter = reliably poor winrate.  Good (80%+) shooter = above average WR, but you can’t say how good. Might be a 55% player, might be a super-unicum. (Source: old wotbstars data)

 

Yes, there is a skill required to read team lineups and adjust your start plans accordingly.  

 

View PostPlayer_3538429276, on 30 May 2018 - 05:43 AM, said:

As for name calling, these players ruin fun for me and others, they are the main reason of negative emotions. It should come at them back. As I said, they ruin fun for me (negative emotions for me), I call them imbeciles (negative emotions for them) and move on. Fair deal. 

 

So they trigger you, like many others, to lash out.  You could admonish them and tell them something useful at the same time, like “camping in heavy = loser”.  Somebody like me (as I was c. 6 months ago) might actually act on that rebuke.  Tell me my IQ is low? 

That’s very classy.  

 


One of life’s challenges — knowing enough to think you are right, but not enough to know that you are wrong.

 


sixty_three #29 Posted 30 May 2018 - 06:08 AM

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View PostPlayer_3538429276, on 30 May 2018 - 05:55 AM, said:

 

Try hit per battle. Skillful players shoot more per battle, even if their hit rate isn’t perfect. They attempt to shoot even if chances are low, but continue to shoot more.

 

Fair point.

One of life’s challenges — knowing enough to think you are right, but not enough to know that you are wrong.

 


sixty_three #30 Posted 30 May 2018 - 07:12 AM

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View PostPlayer_3538429276, on 30 May 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

What is performance of Good shooter in a bad position and too late in the game (at score of 1:6)? Positioning and reading lineups are everything. If you are a good shooter, but your first shot is on 3rd minute, you’re a bad player. Perhaps, good positioning and reading lineups lead to a good shooting. ;)

 

I don’t talk too much with them. I do my best, then look at how they are playing, that triggers me, and I send negative emotions back at them, then exit the battle. 

 

Positioning and reading lineups are important skills that a good shooter can usefully learn to "suck less".  The fundamental skill a player requires to become relevant in lower tier battles is the ability to shoot well.  That's because so many near-beginners lack even that ability.  

 

Amongst the skills a player needs to improve their game is an awareness of 'tilt".  

 

https://en.m.wikiped...iki/Tilt_(poker)

 

Maybe that is something you can work on now you've cracked good positional play? ;)

 


One of life’s challenges — knowing enough to think you are right, but not enough to know that you are wrong.

 


Just_merpug #31 Posted 30 May 2018 - 07:53 AM

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Hit rate is fine, but needs to be correlated with effective hits per battle too.

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sixty_three #32 Posted 30 May 2018 - 08:03 AM

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View Postmrpgilbert, on 30 May 2018 - 07:53 AM, said:

Hit rate is fine, but needs to be correlated with effective hits per battle too.

 

Yes.  If the hit rate is good, then the player has learnt how to shoot accurately, lead shots, not rush shots, etc.

If the hits per battle is good then the player is getting into the right positions to make these shots, and avoid dying prematurely in the process.  You need accuracy, but that alone isn’t enough.


One of life’s challenges — knowing enough to think you are right, but not enough to know that you are wrong.

 


sixty_three #33 Posted 30 May 2018 - 09:31 AM

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View PostPlayer_3538429276, on 30 May 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

 

Lets take a low tier autoloader for evaluation, for example VIC.

 

Here is top 10 by win rate. I am 2nd by win rate, playing all games solo. Only one player has more or less decent hit rate - 10th place.

 

wr.png

 

Now look at top 10 by hit rate. Good shooters have much less win rates and much less hits per battle. They spend too much time on preparing a good shot, instead of shooting non-stop. 

 

hitrate.png

 

 

As general guidance, somebody with your hit rate %, or lower, is going to have a below average WR.

 

What’s more clear to me now is that the hit rate is an unreliable measure of success (and therefore overall skill) for the very best players. So thanks for your examples.

 

 


One of life’s challenges — knowing enough to think you are right, but not enough to know that you are wrong.

 


Tijgerhaai_XIV #34 Posted 30 May 2018 - 10:15 AM

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It makes no sense to take an auto cannon as an example to discuss hit rate.

Obviously hit rate does not tend to 100% as players improve. Snap shots, etc, will mean that people are always missing.

Penetrating hits per battle is obviously the most important stat for damage, and a key factor of this is the ability to hit what you are aiming at. This is a simpler skill to work on than positioning so that you can fire more, but get hit less.

 


Just_merpug #35 Posted 30 May 2018 - 12:35 PM

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View Postsixty_three, on 30 May 2018 - 09:31 AM, said:

 

As general guidance, somebody with your hit rate %, or lower, is going to have a below average WR.

 

What’s more clear to me now is that the hit rate is an unreliable measure of success (and therefore overall skill) for the very best players. So thanks for your examples.

 

 

Tijgerhaai has it; the hitrate in low tier MG tanks will be high only if you're up close, and in that circumstance you're going to be dead soon.


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sixty_three #36 Posted 31 May 2018 - 07:52 AM

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View PostPlayer_3538429276, on 30 May 2018 - 03:33 PM, said:

Check how many hits without penetration was in the beginning, but still almost 8k damage and kill on the last second of the game.

 

 

Also noteworthy was the constant movement to reduce taking hits; extensive use of tracking to help with COD moves; knowing just where to place the tank on the dunes to go hull down...just being very savvy with the whole map, and having the hand-eye coordination skills to pull it all off. Genuinely impressive.

 

I'll continue to think it unimpressive though to call out people, like Vertuschka's last kill, as imbeciles.  As that's very likely to be incorrect anyway.  I remember being mildly offended the first time somebody called me a retard in the game.  But these days I just think they're silly themselves.  I've started occasionally to respond politely to them, as a piss take, by pretending I don't understand what they're talking about.  In doing so I've realised some have a limited grasp of English.  Others weirdly assume I'm female, so I've had an insight into sexist behaviour (these ignoramuses by the way always get reported.) Or the other classic is that I'm "invited" to look at the accusers stats.  What a load of testosterone...

 

 


Edited by sixty_three, 31 May 2018 - 07:53 AM.

One of life’s challenges — knowing enough to think you are right, but not enough to know that you are wrong.

 


DukeA1 #37 Posted 05 June 2018 - 04:59 AM

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super


Edited by DukeA1, 07 June 2018 - 03:01 PM.

 where hope fails - attention to detail prevails! 


Titus_Scato #38 Posted 05 June 2018 - 01:33 PM

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View PostPlayer_3538429276, on 30 May 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

 

Lets take a low tier autoloader for evaluation, for example VIC.

 

Here is top 10 by win rate. I am 2nd by win rate, playing all games solo. Only one player has more or less decent hit rate - 10th place.

 

wr.png

 

Now look at top 10 by hit rate. Good shooters have much less win rates and much less hits per battle. They spend too much time on preparing a good shot, instead of shooting non-stop. 

 

hitrate.png

 

 

I'm in the lower table, have a 75% hit rate in the Light VIC.  

 

I think that hits per battle relates directly to survival.  I only have a 31% survival rate in the Light VIC.  Those who survive longer, shoot more bullets. 

 

Shooting accurately is great, but doesn't help if you don't survive long.  I tend to not use autoaim much, and therefore usually stop to shoot, which makes me an easier target.



DukeA1 #39 Posted 05 June 2018 - 05:33 PM

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View PostTitus_Scato, on 05 June 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

 

I'm in the lower table, have a 75% hit rate in the Light VIC.  

 

I think that hits per battle relates directly to survival.  I only have a 31% survival rate in the Light VIC.  Those who survive longer, shoot more bullets. 

 

Shooting accurately is great, but doesn't help if you don't survive long.  I tend to not use autoaim much, and therefore usually stop to shoot, which makes me an easier target.

 

I have a 0 survival rate in T15, although i never miss, because i deal with pressure well, growing up watching RAMBO, alot of enemies is more fun to kill them all for me, not a worry at all, more points! i ignore it entirely, so always wait for a sure shot ( albeit in T15 thats about 1% dmg, - stand there longer only 99 more shots haha)

 

I wonder how many ppl call ppl noob, when they're taking their T15 out for a fun drive. Has anybody ever scored 5 kills or any in a T15. ( omg noob! always no kills! -  maybe because it's NOT POSSIBLE!!! )

 

Shame on name callers, this thing goes away when we're training for careers, but soon creeps back. Like kindergarten re-awakes! from the zombie land! ( name calling - isn't that kindergarten i thought we grew up??? )

 

:bush:

 

Whilst talking about RAMBO, yep it's possible, to turn back last man standing to 5+ kills just for you, and your reputation will GO RIGHT UP FAST!!! on those rare LUCKY DAYS where impossible things DO HAPPEN FOR YOU. I did that earlier in the week on a strangely *lucky* day that had a good feeling, everyone even the enemy gave me all praise points maxed my friends list. ( Sometimes it's those special moments that recover you.)

 

WR doesn't compete with ACE TANKER MEDALS ( rubbish WR but every ACE MEDAL maxed, you're the better player! )

 

remember RAMBO ideas probably dont work in REAL LIFE though

 

but GAMES YE! rambo all the way!


Edited by DukeA1, 06 June 2018 - 10:11 PM.

 where hope fails - attention to detail prevails! 


Mjr_Eazy #40 Posted 05 June 2018 - 06:11 PM

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Top player in T-15 on blitzstars has 5 kills, even I have 3!

Noob ;)

 


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