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Is mastery system fair?

mastery ace system fair

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Poll: Is mastery system fair? (52 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Is mastery system fair or should be changed?

  1. Yes, its ok as it is. (46 votes [88.46%])

    Percentage of vote: 88.46%

  2. No, it should be reworked (2 votes [3.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.85%

  3. No, damage made should count more (4 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

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Chairman_merpug #21 Posted 12 June 2018 - 08:08 PM

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View Postszkaraj, on 12 June 2018 - 06:25 PM, said:

 

On laptop win10, but on pc win7. I like it.:)

Be brave! Install Windows 8!


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RynnivaTykki #22 Posted 12 June 2018 - 09:02 PM

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View Postsixty_three, on 12 June 2018 - 10:00 PM, said:

 

What is your evidence for rigging?

 

http://wiki.wargamin...evements_(Blitz)

 

To check this calculation you’ll need access to the XP scored by everybody playing that tank on the EU server this last week.  Do you have access to this data?

 

 

 

No, but check yourself. In your own battles, do 50% players on average get at least a 3rd class medal?

Do 20% of players get at least 2nd class medal?


Edited by RynnivaTykki, 12 June 2018 - 09:03 PM.


BarbierDeTvils #23 Posted 12 June 2018 - 10:29 PM

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View PostRynnivaTykki, on 12 June 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

The mastery system is rigged. I don't believe they give an ace for the top-1%. The bar feels much higher, like it's only the best 0,5% players(or less) who get an ace.

 

This is more obvious with the 3rd class medals. It is supposed to be top-50% for third class. So, as an above-average player I should be getting at least 3rd class most of the time. But, no, I just don't. WHY??? :confused:

 

A new « Matchmaking Discussion Tread » ? 

 

Next step : 6600 replies with « rigged » every two posts ;) 


Edited by BarbierDeTvils, 12 June 2018 - 10:30 PM.

Amicalement

BarbierDeTVils

 

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sixty_three #24 Posted 12 June 2018 - 10:38 PM

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View PostRynnivaTykki, on 12 June 2018 - 09:02 PM, said:

No, but check yourself. In your own battles, do 50% players on average get at least a 3rd class medal?

Do 20% of players get at least 2nd class medal?

 

OK, let's take my last battle as a random example.  I'm currently grinding a T58, it has 83% crew and the top turret and gun.  Base suspension and engine.  Battle won 7-4, here are the final green team results:

 

ARL 44, 954xp, 2nd class

ARL 44, 671xp, 3rd class

BDR G1 B, 594xp, 3rd class

VK 28.01, 451xp, no award

T58 (me), 398xp, no award

Leopard, 332xp, no award

S35 CA, 314xp, no award

 

Nobody on the reds received anything, which isn't surprising.  Their top player was also in an ARL 44, with 261xp.

 

In games like this one, where the result wasn't a whitewash - and everybody contributed to some extent - there will be fewer exceptional performances.  And hence fewer awards.  

 

You said this award mechanism is rigged.  To prove there is something afoot, you need to compile data, similar to how I've laid it out above, for a lot of battles.  

 


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jylpah #25 Posted 13 June 2018 - 02:05 AM

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View PostRynnivaTykki, on 13 June 2018 - 05:02 AM, said:

 

No, but check yourself. In your own battles, do 50% players on average get at least a 3rd class medal?

Do 20% of players get at least 2nd class medal?

 

You have misunderstood the formula.

 

Mastery Badge is given to players that receive more XP than 99% of the players in one battle. That means XP > max(XP in a tank of 99% of players) for the measurement period. It is not higher XP than average XP of 99% of players, but more than max XP of the highest XP of 99% of players in a tank. There is a difference there.


Edited by jylpah, 13 June 2018 - 04:33 AM.

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petes85 #26 Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:07 AM

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View PostRynnivaTykki, on 12 June 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

This is more obvious with the 3rd class medals. It is supposed to be top-50% for third class. So, as an above-average player I should be getting at least 3rd class most of the time. But, no, I just don't. WHY??? :confused:

Please explain more, it's XP based and has nothing to do with wr. Top players don't Ace tanks just like that either



RynnivaTykki #27 Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:51 AM

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It says "average highest experience of (50/80/95/99)% of players..." - what exactly does this mean? Still don't get it!

petes85 #28 Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:10 AM

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View PostRynnivaTykki, on 13 June 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

It says "average highest experience of (50/80/95/99)% of players..." - what exactly does this mean? Still don't get it!

3 bagde to get above 50% of The average highest experience. In a few words, a sample: 1000 XP is highest experience. 501 XP gives you badge 3 cause it's above 50%  801 gives you badge 2 cause  it's above 80 % and so on. 



BorgR3mc0 #29 Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:34 AM

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View Postpetes85, on 13 June 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

3 bagde to get above 50% of The average highest experience. In a few words, a sample: 1000 XP is highest experience. 501 XP gives you badge 3 cause it's above 50%  801 gives you badge 2 cause  it's above 80 % and so on. 

 

Nope, that is not how statistics work. 

 

The outcome of the battle will be distiributed normal. So if you want to do better then 97,5 of the players you will have to score the average XP plus two times the standard deviation. 

So let’s say for a tier X tank an average xp is 1200. But the standard deviation is 200 (distribution is wide because of unicums) then you would have to have 1600+ xp to be in the last 97,5%. 

 

The he numbers are made up. You could probably get them from Blitzstars. 

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

 

 


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jylpah #30 Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:53 AM

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Pete85 got it wrong too :)

 

Example:

 

Player Player's Max XP in a tank Medals
1 1000 1st
2 800 2nd
3 799 3rd
4 430 3rd
5 429 3rd
6 414 -
7 400 -
8 398 -
9 314 -
10 310 -
11 210 -

 

Since we have less than 100 players it is not possible to get Mastery.


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Bjorngisli #31 Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:40 PM

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Maybe you're just overestimating your skill level

BorgR3mc0 #32 Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:54 PM

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View Postjylpah, on 13 June 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

Pete85 got it wrong too :)

 

Example:

 

Player Player's Max XP in a tank Medals
1 1000 1st
2 800 2nd
3 799 3rd
4 430 3rd
5 429 3rd
6 414 -
7 400 -
8 398 -
9 314 -
10 310 -
11 210 -

 

Since we have less than 100 players it is not possible to get Mastery.

 

Sure it is. You can scale the data. Average is about 500, standard deviation 220. So you would need 940 xp for the last 97,5% (I am using 97,5% because that is always two times the standard deviation when there is a normal distribution). So master for player one. But player 4 and 5 are below average. No medal for them. 


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petes85 #33 Posted 13 June 2018 - 05:37 PM

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It was a example, and yes you need all facts The above to scale those.

martindogger #34 Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:20 PM

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View PostRynnivaTykki, on 12 June 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

 

No, but check yourself. In your own battles, do 50% players on average get at least a 3rd class medal?

Do 20% of players get at least 2nd class medal?

 

You forget the fact that for every win, there's a loss. So every 7 players with higher are compensated with 7 that lose and get lower XP.

Plus, shooting from a distance at targets you wouldn't have been able to spot without a teammates gives half the XP to the spotter. 


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Cancracker #35 Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:37 PM

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View Postmartindogger, on 13 June 2018 - 06:20 PM, said:

 

You forget the fact that for every win, there's a loss. So every 7 players with higher are compensated with 7 that lose and get lower XP.

Plus, shooting from a distance at targets you wouldn't have been able to spot without a teammates gives half the XP to the spotter. 

That's why huge camping damage in TDs doesn't count...

 

People don't get that if you need 1200xp for an ace, you'll get a 3 above 600. It's not linear. An in no way adding increasing first class experience by 4% guarantees an ace.


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Acids_Burn #36 Posted 14 June 2018 - 07:06 AM

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View Postjylpah, on 13 June 2018 - 01:53 PM, said:

Pete85 got it wrong too :)

 

Example:

 

Player Player's Max XP in a tank Medals
1 1000 1st
2 800 2nd
3 799 3rd
4 430 3rd
5 429 3rd
6 414 -
7 400 -
8 398 -
9 314 -
10 310 -
11 210 -

 

Since we have less than 100 players it is not possible to get Mastery.

That is not true. How do people get masteries on the first day of tank sales? There are less than 10p players with that tank but you still get a mastery because you did better than anyone else in that tank in the last 7 days. Doesn't matter that the tank was introduced to the game two days ago.


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jylpah #37 Posted 14 June 2018 - 09:43 AM

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View PostAcids_Burn, on 14 June 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

That is not true. How do people get masteries on the first day of tank sales? There are less than 10p players with that tank but you still get a mastery because you did better than anyone else in that tank in the last 7 days. Doesn't matter that the tank was introduced to the game two days ago.

 

With less than 100 players it should not be possible to be better than 99% of the players.

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eliasdepelias #38 Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:16 AM

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Is it 100 players, or a 100 battles? 100 battles in a new tank will be achieved in the first hour.

 

That is why it is so hard to get masteries, top players get the bar for first class and mastery very high. 


Edited by eliasdepelias, 14 June 2018 - 10:19 AM.


jylpah #39 Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:34 AM

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View Posteliasdepelias, on 14 June 2018 - 06:16 PM, said:

Is it 100 players, or a 100 battles? 100 battles in a new tank will be achieved in the first hour.

 

That is why it is so hard to get masteries, top players get the bar for first class and mastery very high. 

 

100 players

 

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Achievements


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RA1D_SCHNITZEL_ #40 Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:53 AM

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It says players but it means games. Plus I feel like WG sets some of those values for new tanks and usually these values are quite low, as it is often very easy to get a Mastery on tanks on the first day they are sold.

 

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