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Quick and easy one? Chat bans....

Chat bans

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Poll: Chat ban and ‘Battle Command Menu’ (41 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

Should people banned from chat still be able to use the ‘Battle Command Menu’?

  1. Voted Yes (19 votes [46.34%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 46.34%

  2. No (22 votes [53.66%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 53.66%

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anonym_jLj8qMWZdxIj #1 Posted 19 July 2018 - 08:53 AM

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Folks

 

Having never had a chat ban in my life before ever *cough cough dribble*, I think it a little much that players are banned also from using the ‘Battle Commands’.

 

Personally I cant see any reason why this should be? Do you agree.....



onlypainhurts #2 Posted 19 July 2018 - 08:59 AM

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Its a punishment right? Then they should be banned from all communication.   While they can do no harm other than spam Hold and capture the base the point of a punishment is to get the person to hopefully modify their behavior.

"Oderint dum Metuant"


Mjr_Eazy #3 Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:02 AM

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View PostL_O_N_G_B_O_W, on 19 July 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:

Folks

 

Having never had a chat ban in my life before ever *cough cough dribble*, I think it a little much that players are banned also from using the ‘Battle Commands’.

 

Personally I cant see any reason why this should be? Do you agree.....

 

I think it’s because what the banned player resorts to is spamming the commands constantly to confuse and annoy their own or both teams. It’s the sort of muppets who just sit there spouting bile after they die because of their own incompetence and would then do this.

 

To be clear I’m in no way suggesting that’s you, I know it can be easy to get a ban, run across some salty platoons and you easily end up with one even when un-warranted as has been posted elsewhere.  It’s t’internet and it’s awash with trolls, idiots and kids.

 

Part of me thinks they should still allow the commands to be used but on balance I think it’s better to block them too as it

makes it more of a punishment, although it’s not going to deter the true trolls with their 100’s of down-votes and myriad bans.


547146227.png

 


anonym_jLj8qMWZdxIj #4 Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:03 AM

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View Postonlypainhurts, on 19 July 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

Its a punishment right? Then they should be banned from all communication.   While they can do no harm other than spam Hold and capture the base the point of a punishment is to get the person to hopefully modify their behavior.

 

Not everyone is playing after (primary) school and trust me, chat bans achieve nothing (so Ive been told....).

 

Why punish the rest of the team also when you cant, at least, communicate thorugh battle commands in some form or another?


Edited by L_O_N_G_B_O_W, 19 July 2018 - 09:06 AM.


anonym_jLj8qMWZdxIj #5 Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:05 AM

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View PostMjr_Eazy, on 19 July 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

 

I think it’s because what the banned player resorts to is spamming the commands constantly to confuse and annoy their own or both teams. It’s the sort of muppets who just sit there spouting bile after they die because of their own incompetence and would then do this.

 

To be clear I’m in no way suggesting that’s you, I know it can be easy to get a ban, run across some salty platoons and you easily end up with one even when un-warranted as has been posted elsewhere.  It’s t’internet and it’s awash with trolls, idiots and kids.

 

Part of me thinks they should still allow the commands to be used but on balance I think it’s better to block them too as it

makes it more of a punishment, although it’s not going to deter the true trolls with their 100’s of down-votes and myriad bans.

 

Punsihment lol....there we go again. I think I may pull this thread as its obvious the ‘punishment’ thing (lol) will become a theme....



Mjr_Eazy #6 Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:12 AM

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View PostL_O_N_G_B_O_W, on 19 July 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

 

Punsihment lol....there we go again. I think I may pull this thread as its obvious the ‘punishment’ thing (lol) will become a theme....

 

lol, I know, sorry, couldn’t think of a better way to describe it and it is what WG think it is...

Nah, never pull a thread m8 they often have a way of taking unexpected and comical turns :)

 

There’s a definite whiff of NewSpeak about this place but the more threads and posts the merrier in my book...


Edited by Mjr_Eazy, 19 July 2018 - 09:14 AM.

547146227.png

 


onlypainhurts #7 Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:17 AM

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View PostL_O_N_G_B_O_W, on 19 July 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

 

Not everyone is playing after (primary) school and trust me, chat bans achieve nothing (so Ive been told....).

 

Why punish the rest of the team also when you cant, at least, communicate thorugh battle commands in some form or another?

 

You chide Eazy for using the word punishment but then you think that not getting battle commands from a banned player is a "punishment" to the rest of the team?   Try a little consistency in your arguments.   While chat bans do little (ask how i know) giving chat  commands to banned players does very little to benefit the team and only gives an offender a mode to which they can still communicate through.    If you are going to ban someone ban everything or else why bother.  

"Oderint dum Metuant"


petes85 #8 Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:20 AM

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Chat Ban is useless, just take chat completely off and If there is whining after a game just ignore.

onlypainhurts #9 Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:25 AM

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View Postpetes85, on 19 July 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

Chat Ban is useless, just take chat completely off and If there is whining after a game just ignore.

 

I dont think I agree that they are useless though,  Yes they do very little.  BUT if WG didnt ban people from chat that would be a proxy condoning of bad behavior by WG.   I guarantee you if people knew there was no punishment for chat violations the chat would be much much worse than it is.  

"Oderint dum Metuant"


anonym_jLj8qMWZdxIj #10 Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:29 AM

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View Postpetes85, on 19 July 2018 - 09:20 AM, said:

Chat Ban is useless, just take chat completely off and If there is whining after a game just ignore.

 

 

Now that is a great idea...at last some sanity and sense (No no!!! Punish them all, 50 lashes!!! etc etc).

 

Adding three directional commands like < ‘Left’, ^ ‘Middle’, > ‘Right’ that could be used at start of battle to try and give some form of team direction...

If people abuse Battle commands (spam) then they get removed? Just a thought


Edited by L_O_N_G_B_O_W, 19 July 2018 - 09:31 AM.


anonym_jLj8qMWZdxIj #11 Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:41 AM

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View Postonlypainhurts, on 19 July 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

 

You chide Eazy for using the word punishment but then you think that not getting battle commands from a banned player is a "punishment" to the rest of the team?   Try a little consistency in your arguments.   While chat bans do little (ask how i know) giving chat  commands to banned players does very little to benefit the team and only gives an offender a mode to which they can still communicate through.    If you are going to ban someone ban everything or else why bother.  

 

Chide? I havent ‘Chide’ anyone. Consistency...what are you on about...??

 

My argument is quite straight forward. Chat bans are quite straight forward, you are banned for one violation or another (swearing, abuse, racism etc etc). Why should this stop you from communicating, via ‘Battle commands’ to the team player next to you like ‘Attack T-34’ for example, or SOS which could potentially decide between a win or a loss for your team?

 

You are not ‘chatting’ are you, the ‘punishment’ as you like to see it is still in place.

 

Why should the teams you play in potentially suffer/loose games because you are unable to communicate through ‘Battle commands’?

 

 



onlypainhurts #12 Posted 19 July 2018 - 10:20 AM

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View PostL_O_N_G_B_O_W, on 19 July 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

 

Chide? I havent ‘Chide’ anyone. Consistency...what are you on about...??

 

My argument is quite straight forward. Chat bans are quite straight forward, you are banned for one violation or another (swearing, abuse, racism etc etc). Why should this stop you from communicating, via ‘Battle commands’ to the team player next to you like ‘Attack T-34’ for example, or SOS which could potentially decide between a win or a loss for your team?

 

You are not ‘chatting’ are you, the ‘punishment’ as you like to see it is still in place.

 

Why should the teams you play in potentially suffer/loose games because you are unable to communicate through ‘Battle commands’?

 

 

 

Was my english not clear enough? You took umbrage with Eazy for having called the bans a punishment,  Yet at the same time you think that by teams losing the battle commands of a banned player that is a "punishment" on the team.   I dare say that it is a very rare game that was lost because someone could not broadcast "capture the base"    or "affirmative"  If the game is lost for the lack of these commands many graver mistakes were made before that moment.  

 

It is overly dramatic to say that teams "suffer" because a player cannot give battle commands.   90% of players ignore them.  It doesnt matter how many times I type <<<<<<  into the chat there will always be 2 or 3 that go off on their own way.    It isilly to suggest that the lack of these commands makes that large of a difference in the game.  

 

but we also get into another point you seem to think that >>>>> or <<<<<<< are battle commands and they are not.   So please tell me how do you propose WG rememdy this? Can a banned person use only punctuation?   Like we wont see banned people spamming lines of it, that will never happen?   Or where do you draw the line because i cannot believe for a moment that you would suggest that the lack of the hold or capture the base command caused you to ever lose a game


"Oderint dum Metuant"


anonym_jLj8qMWZdxIj #13 Posted 19 July 2018 - 10:39 AM

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View Postonlypainhurts, on 19 July 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

 

Was my english not clear enough? You took umbrage with Eazy for having called the bans a punishment,  Yet at the same time you think that by teams losing the battle commands of a banned player that is a "punishment" on the team.   I dare say that it is a very rare game that was lost because someone could not broadcast "capture the base"    or "affirmative"  If the game is lost for the lack of these commands many graver mistakes were made before that moment.  

 

It is overly dramatic to say that teams "suffer" because a player cannot give battle commands.   90% of players ignore them.  It doesnt matter how many times I type <<<<<<  into the chat there will always be 2 or 3 that go off on their own way.    It isilly to suggest that the lack of these commands makes that large of a difference in the game.  

 

but we also get into another point you seem to think that >>>>> or <<<<<<< are battle commands and they are not.   So please tell me how do you propose WG rememdy this? Can a banned person use only punctuation?   Like we wont see banned people spamming lines of it, that will never happen?   Or where do you draw the line because i cannot believe for a moment that you would suggest that the lack of the hold or capture the base command caused you to ever lose a game

 

No it was clear, just inaccurate.

 

I can tell you from experience that having ‘Battle Commands’ whilst serving a chat ban IS helpful.

 

I can tell you that yes, sometimes you press SOS and no one responds. But sometimes they do.

 

I can tell you that yes, sometimes this has swung a game, on several occasions myself and the person who came to help have gone and killed the remainder of the enemy together.

 

I can tell you in Plats it would be helpful for the above reasons when serving a chat ban.

 

I can tell you that yes, focusing fire can turn a game.

 

Etc etc etc....

 

If you put your ego aside for one moment and re-read my post about directional commands, you will see it implied adding three additional buttons to the ‘Battle Command’ tier, quite simply on the left of the command window would be an < button, in the middle would be a ^ button, and on the right would be a > button. Maybe saying & appearing at the top of the screen “Flank Left”, “Advance forward!” and “Flank Right” as they are pressed.

Just a thought and could be quite handy as in the heat of battle, who has time to type...? Probably you, right?

 

This actually ties in with the MM thread - when you try to say <<<<<<< or “Meds Right” etc, and two or three go in completely the wrong direction, it is normally the 32 battles played with 37% WR brigade.

Sort the MM where you are in teams of more experienced players of similar skill - the ‘Battle commands’ become a lot more effective.

 

No one is saying that having ‘Battle commands’ win or lose games - but they help and used correctly as a collective, hugely.

 


Edited by L_O_N_G_B_O_W, 19 July 2018 - 11:09 AM.


DumbApe #14 Posted 19 July 2018 - 10:56 AM

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The Honour System is broken and given the number of players expecting WG to be able to moderate and manage the salty and afk players is pretty optimistic. Either its really resource intensive with people reviewing 10,000's of replays a day or an automated one that lacks sense and repeats the problems we have today (but in new and equally frustrating ways).

 

The current system can be misused by Platoons as well as others too. I do report folks directly when they are racist, sexist and particularly profane and the new replay system is very handy with this. This happens probably once or twice a week.

 

When you have broken or difficult systems [like we do] we have to be careful with penalties as the innocent will IMO unjustly punished, but chat bans really aren't very much at all.  What I think would be needed is a set of more severe measure that might actually change behaviours. Below are a few ideas:

 

Level one (first offence/minor) 1 week chat ban

Level two (repeat offence/ minor) 1 month chat ban

Level three (major offence) L2 above and a 100,000 - 5,000,000 silver fine dependent on balance 

Level four  (repeat major offence) 1 month chat ban and 1M silver fine with 20,000 free XP deduction again depending on balance  

Level five  (serial offender) Level 4 times 2 plus 1 month Game ban

Level six (account reset to zero) 

 

It'll never happen, of course, as ultimately the issue isn't WG, but rather the behaviour of people on the 'net.  Trolls and other folks will continue to disgorge vile bile when hiding behind a keyboard when in real life they mostly timid and cowardly not able even to say boo to a goose.   

     


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jonty_2014 #15 Posted 19 July 2018 - 11:41 AM

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sixty_three #16 Posted 19 July 2018 - 12:49 PM

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I'd imagine that most players wouldn't be able to tell you WG's exact rules, regulations and consequences regarding chat abuse.  And if you do, you'll know it's not totally precise anyway.  

 

First time offenders of "provocative communications" should therefore, in my book, normally be given a written warning about their behaviour.  This should spell out the precise consequences for them if the behaviour continues. Including whether or not loss of use of the battle command menu is part of the package.

 

If the person does then reoffend, they have no excuse about what's going to happen to them.

 

As far as the question of whether teams unfairly suffer because a troll can no longer send out an "attention to sector X" message, I see no unfairness for encounter/supremacy battles.  As the MM should just randomly allocate out these people across the red and green teams.

 


Edited by sixty_three, 19 July 2018 - 12:51 PM.

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petes85 #17 Posted 19 July 2018 - 01:45 PM

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View Postonlypainhurts, on 19 July 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

 

I dont think I agree that they are useless though,  Yes they do very little.  BUT if WG didnt ban people from chat that would be a proxy condoning of bad behavior by WG.   I guarantee you if people knew there was no punishment for chat violations the chat would be much much worse than it is.  

Maybe, just that those bans are lifted that is why they are useless, punishment should Be More effective Let's say you lose credits certain amount. Honour system now does not support this, there should Be a filter for Bad language like this Forum has.



onlypainhurts #18 Posted 19 July 2018 - 02:42 PM

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View Postpetes85, on 19 July 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

Maybe, just that those bans are lifted that is why they are useless, punishment should Be More effective Let's say you lose credits certain amount. Honour system now does not support this, there should Be a filter for Bad language like this Forum has.

 

There is a filter, just not a good one,  Removing credits could get complicated because you can purchase credits for real money.    Any bans/punishments should not be tied to the honor system as it has been proven again and again to be subject to abuse.  But then that would mean WG would have to pay people to moderate.  This is the crux of the issue.    It not so easy when trying to give more permanent punishment.   The biggest issue that you run into one that WG wont violate is that even a offensive player is still a customer who they can bilk for money so giving a harsh punishment that could possibly drive away a player is not something they would jump at doing.  I agree though it might be better at controlling player behavior than the current system.     Ive never seen a game that handed out harsh punishments easily that survived very long.   A balance has to be struck.  

"Oderint dum Metuant"


onlypainhurts #19 Posted 19 July 2018 - 02:53 PM

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View PostL_O_N_G_B_O_W, on 19 July 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

 

No it was clear, just inaccurate.

 

I can tell you from experience that having ‘Battle Commands’ whilst serving a chat ban IS helpful.

 

I can tell you that yes, sometimes you press SOS and no one responds. But sometimes they do.

 

I can tell you that yes, sometimes this has swung a game, on several occasions myself and the person who came to help have gone and killed the remainder of the enemy together.

 

I can tell you in Plats it would be helpful for the above reasons when serving a chat ban.

 

I can tell you that yes, focusing fire can turn a game.

 

Etc etc etc....

 

If you put your ego aside for one moment and re-read my post about directional commands, you will see it implied adding three additional buttons to the ‘Battle Command’ tier, quite simply on the left of the command window would be an < button, in the middle would be a ^ button, and on the right would be a > button. Maybe saying & appearing at the top of the screen “Flank Left”, “Advance forward!” and “Flank Right” as they are pressed.

Just a thought and could be quite handy as in the heat of battle, who has time to type...? Probably you, right?

 

This actually ties in with the MM thread - when you try to say <<<<<<< or “Meds Right” etc, and two or three go in completely the wrong direction, it is normally the 32 battles played with 37% WR brigade.

Sort the MM where you are in teams of more experienced players of similar skill - the ‘Battle commands’ become a lot more effective.

 

No one is saying that having ‘Battle commands’ win or lose games - but they help and used correctly as a collective, hugely.

 

 

So you want WG to add more commands so chat banned players can communicate more?   I have never read the matchmaking thread so any reference to what goes on there is lost on me.  

But i know for a fact people will go the way they want to go despite how many times you spam directions at them.   Its not just new players that do this either, not by a long shot.   

 

But this is all neither here not there.  The crux is really simple,  What should a chat ban entail,  In my view it should be a ban from all communication,    I dont care that you found it hard to platoon while you served your chat ban.  Thats the consequences of it.   The fact that there are consequences to it just might make some people rethink their behavior.    As Petes85 was saying the penalty should be harsher.  Giving someone the ability to still communicate effectively doesnt feel like much of a punishment.   This is akin to parents to send their kids to their room,,,, with their xbox and Ipad.     While the efficacy of the bans is low it is better than it would be if those players could still communicate.   No one would give a chat ban a second thought if they could still effectively communicate.   

 

I have a feeling that the chat ban you served might have had somewhat of an effect. It got you to come here and try to advocate for lessening of the punishments.  I have a counter idea that would be super simple to implement.   Dont get chat banned then you dont have to worry about having combat commands.   Its super simple to avoid chat bans. 

 

 

EDIT   I would like to see  Go left, right and center commands added to the game.   That way they could be translated into the users language some maybe a few more people would understand what you mean by them. 


Edited by onlypainhurts, 19 July 2018 - 02:55 PM.

"Oderint dum Metuant"


anonym_jLj8qMWZdxIj #20 Posted 19 July 2018 - 03:13 PM

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View Postonlypainhurts, on 19 July 2018 - 02:53 PM, said:

 

So you want WG to add more commands so chat banned players can communicate more?   I have never read the matchmaking thread so any reference to what goes on there is lost on me.  

But i know for a fact people will go the way they want to go despite how many times you spam directions at them.   Its not just new players that do this either, not by a long shot.   

 

But this is all neither here not there.  The crux is really simple,  What should a chat ban entail,  In my view it should be a ban from all communication,    I dont care that you found it hard to platoon while you served your chat ban.  Thats the consequences of it.   The fact that there are consequences to it just might make some people rethink their behavior.    As Petes85 was saying the penalty should be harsher.  Giving someone the ability to still communicate effectively doesnt feel like much of a punishment.   This is akin to parents to send their kids to their room,,,, with their xbox and Ipad.     While the efficacy of the bans is low it is better than it would be if those players could still communicate.   No one would give a chat ban a second thought if they could still effectively communicate.   

 

I have a feeling that the chat ban you served might have had somewhat of an effect. It got you to come here and try to advocate for lessening of the punishments.  I have a counter idea that would be super simple to implement.   Dont get chat banned then you dont have to worry about having combat commands.   Its super simple to avoid chat bans. 

 

 

EDIT   I would like to see  Go left, right and center commands added to the game.   That way they could be translated into the users language some maybe a few more people would understand what you mean by them. 

 

Wrong again (has RL not taught you anything about assumptions)?

 

I came here to post about MM if you must know, and whilst here thought Id ask about this...I actually expected a positive response, but then always the optimist hey...

 

It is obvious that those lacking grey cells and unable to ‘think outside the box’ can not differentiate between a “Chat ban” (look up CHAT in the dictionary, oh sorry, showing my age....Google) and “Battle Commands” (sending a command/order/directive etc).

 

One involves a two way conversation, talking, discuss etc.

The other is sending a signal.

 

Chat ban (singular)? Again...you assume, and have no idea.

Super simple to avoid...yes, like I mentioned in a previous MM thread post, I avoid forums normally like the plague. Why....well, here’s the reason why (see above).

 

Yes, there were many reasons for my idea of adding those directional commands to the command bar, being better for new players and other nationalities being just two.

 

Glad to hear you at least agree with one of the several points that make sense...

 

 


Edited by L_O_N_G_B_O_W, 19 July 2018 - 03:15 PM.






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