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Inconsistency of Heat and he rounds and ghost rounds


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Damo1977Gostling #1 Posted 09 November 2018 - 01:01 PM

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Is any one else tired of inconsistent game play ? 

 

The reason im writing this is after my last battle I faced down an rhm fired two rounds hit the same spot twice with completely different results and I have been playing years and I still can’t guarantee what my rounds will actually do so out of frustration I felt I wanted to air my feelings and in some way there’s a suggestion to wot blitz. 

 

I have had so many ghost shots I cannot keep count, shots that either vanish into some in game black hole or pass through an enemy as if it wasn’t even there it’s been going on for years now and has it been fixed ? Well if it had I wouldn’t be writing this would I ? 

 

He rounds that you fire thinking ah nice a soft armoured target so let’s use those he rounds to do a little extra damage but noooo u target, fire , less damage than a standard ap round would have achieved ! Erm but I know what my targets armour is and I know what my he rounds minimum penetration is so why? I hit exactly what I was aiming at, that nice turret or cabin but still less damage ? Confused fire again and bang increased damage but I hit exactly the same area so why ? round one does half or less while round two does what u expected, you ever had that wt or rhm facing the other way and fired that he round right into the open cabin, where in fact there’s no armour only in theory the crew ! but yet again less than minimum damage for a he round,but why ?  argh more confused! 

 

Facing down that heavily armoured enemy u know ur in trouble player knows his tank keeps his nose down so time to break out those apcr or heat rounds with increased penetration that’s just what I need to change the tide minimum pens so high surely I can’t fail, fire round one at that beast hit that nice flat spot you wanted to hit not the slope not the man let and boing wtf rubber rounds ? Fire again and it’s a pen but both rounds hit the same spot why ? More annoyed? 

 

All i I want is to know if I’m using any ammunition type to expect a consistent end result and I really don’t its all well and good to state armour mechanics angles of penetration % how ever there are shots u should feel 100% safe if you catch that enemy tank drive up behind it and boom right up the weakest area of its armour see that it hit that nice flat back plate you wanted it to but that round still bounces then there has to be a better way, the random % success or fail  effect shouldn’t be in play on certain areas of enemy tanks I’m not referring to your armadillo style is7 as it’s designed to be angled but it’s flat butt should be outside the realms of possible bounced rounds,tanks with armour barely thicker than tinfoil armour and open cabins should be receiving full minimum damage from he rounds landing where they are open. 

 

 



bunnybun123 #2 Posted 09 November 2018 - 01:13 PM

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The point of HE is that it doesn't give you a consistent result. It's a higher risk, higher reward kind of ammunition. If you hit the tracks you won't do full damage. some goes for spaced armor. You can check this on armor inspector or blitzhangar. And yeah it happens often that you aim and the HE shell still doesn't hit the right spot. Happens to all of us :) 

 

And HEAT is indeed less reliable than AP or APCR, but that's compensated by higher penetration values. If you know where you can shoot and where not (something I don't know for all tanks, at all) HEAT is actually better because of the higher pen. But yes if you hit soft cover or spaced armor, you do exactly 0 damage. That's the downside of it. 

 

Don't use HE too often, I'd say. Certainly not if you can finish off a tank with AP instead. 



Ihagee #3 Posted 09 November 2018 - 01:29 PM

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Contrary, I find ghost shots quite consistent :teethhappy:

Damo1977Gostling #4 Posted 09 November 2018 - 01:58 PM

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Bunny my point is exactly what u have agreed with, he rounds are too inconsistent, heat rounds are too inconsistent, every round has minimum penetration figures if these figures exceed what it’s hitting then they should penetrate easily and explode on impact spaced armour is another factor but if your target is an open cabin wt for example and u fire from behind into it % success should be irrelevant and full minimum to maximum damage should be achieved firing a heat round at a flat back plate into a tank with armour values far less than the heat rounds minimum penetration should cause minimum to maximum damage and they just don’t the whole point of having the ability that aim is we choose where the rounds go, if we aim at the areas we know to be exposed the % of success should be 100% it’s one thing to fire at the deflection plates around the gun facia random explosive results are to be expected but not where the shot goes into an unprotected cabin area,I’m not saying the round should cause the maximum potential damage only that it doesn’t cause less than the minimum

 



Titus_Scato #5 Posted 10 November 2018 - 01:19 AM

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I say - keep the HEAT rounds inconsistent.  It’s unpredictable, and unpredictability is fun.

 

But - in compensation - undo the 15% alpha damage nerf they received a year ago.  Lets go back to the days when HEAT did the same damage as AP.

 

That makes for an interesting contrast between APCR and HEAT.  If you want reliable performance and ease of use, go with APCR.  If you want slightly higher penetration and higher damage, and are prepared to risk more failures to get that, go with HEAT.

 

HESH should do the same damage as now, but have a much higher chance of killing crew members.  Including a very small chance of killing ALL the crew members at once, and leaving the target unable to move, traverse or shoot.  (Same chance as an ammo rack.)

 

Don’t fire HE into open-topped turrets - you’ll hit the gun breech and do less damage for that reason.


Edited by Titus_Scato, 10 November 2018 - 01:23 AM.


minitelrose #6 Posted 10 November 2018 - 04:34 AM

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View PostDamo1977Gostling, on 09 November 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

Is any one else tired of inconsistent game play ? 

 

The reason im writing this is after my last battle I faced down an rhm fired two rounds hit the same spot twice with completely different results and I have been playing years and I still can’t guarantee what my rounds will actually do so out of frustration I felt I wanted to air my feelings and in some way there’s a suggestion to wot blitz. 

 

I have had so many ghost shots I cannot keep count, shots that either vanish into some in game black hole or pass through an enemy as if it wasn’t even there it’s been going on for years now and has it been fixed ? Well if it had I wouldn’t be writing this would I ? 

 

He rounds that you fire thinking ah nice a soft armoured target so let’s use those he rounds to do a little extra damage but noooo u target, fire , less damage than a standard ap round would have achieved ! Erm but I know what my targets armour is and I know what my he rounds minimum penetration is so why? I hit exactly what I was aiming at, that nice turret or cabin but still less damage ? Confused fire again and bang increased damage but I hit exactly the same area so why ? round one does half or less while round two does what u expected, you ever had that wt or rhm facing the other way and fired that he round right into the open cabin, where in fact there’s no armour only in theory the crew ! but yet again less than minimum damage for a he round,but why ?  argh more confused! 

 

Facing down that heavily armoured enemy u know ur in trouble player knows his tank keeps his nose down so time to break out those apcr or heat rounds with increased penetration that’s just what I need to change the tide minimum pens so high surely I can’t fail, fire round one at that beast hit that nice flat spot you wanted to hit not the slope not the man let and boing wtf rubber rounds ? Fire again and it’s a pen but both rounds hit the same spot why ? More annoyed? 

 

All i I want is to know if I’m using any ammunition type to expect a consistent end result and I really don’t its all well and good to state armour mechanics angles of penetration % how ever there are shots u should feel 100% safe if you catch that enemy tank drive up behind it and boom right up the weakest area of its armour see that it hit that nice flat back plate you wanted it to but that round still bounces then there has to be a better way, the random % success or fail  effect shouldn’t be in play on certain areas of enemy tanks I’m not referring to your armadillo style is7 as it’s designed to be angled but it’s flat butt should be outside the realms of possible bounced rounds,tanks with armour barely thicker than tinfoil armour and open cabins should be receiving full minimum damage from he rounds landing where they are open. 

 

 

 

post a replay, and wotinspector will show you how it works.

 

this said I love HE and hate HEAT for the same reasons : they are finicky ammos whose only reliable part is the unreliability.

 

ghost shots are just your client thinkng something on his own, while the server thinks otherwise. 

 


Edited by minitelrose, 10 November 2018 - 04:35 AM.

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I want just that, and replay files.

 


minitelrose #7 Posted 10 November 2018 - 04:42 AM

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View PostTitus_Scato, on 10 November 2018 - 02:19 AM, said:

I say - keep the HEAT rounds inconsistent.  It’s unpredictable, and unpredictability is fun.

 

But - in compensation - undo the 15% alpha damage nerf they received a year ago.  Lets go back to the days when HEAT did the same damage as AP.

 

That makes for an interesting contrast between APCR and HEAT.  If you want reliable performance and ease of use, go with APCR.  If you want slightly higher penetration and higher damage, and are prepared to risk more failures to get that, go with HEAT.

 

HESH should do the same damage as now, but have a much higher chance of killing crew members.  Including a very small chance of killing ALL the crew members at once, and leaving the target unable to move, traverse or shoot.  (Same chance as an ammo rack.)

 

Don’t fire HE into open-topped turrets - you’ll hit the gun breech and do less damage for that reason.

 

HESH wouldn’t work. It’s not how the physics work. HESH or HE after pen the primary armor open up in  a cone and only whatever is in that cone will be affected. U can amorack, but you can’t kill a crew member that isn’t in the trajectory that would be against the physics of the game. 

 

That, and a lot of open top tanks have been fixed. Before the HE would explode before reaching the primary armor, and would only splash. Now it was fixed by adding zero armor behind the crews (for exemple waffentrager, look it up on armor inspector) therefore as soon as ur shot goes into crew space it is counted full pen worth of dmg. I can’t tell if they fixed all open top tanks that way, but certainly  a few of them. 


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"I want the game to be just how it was launched, no MM limitations for platoons, some unbalanced match once in a while, and friendly fire should come back as well. The only thing they should remove is statistics." -phony1907, 08 July 2016, 05:45pm - 

I want just that, and replay files.

 


JJSawry #8 Posted 10 November 2018 - 11:51 AM

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View PostTitus_Scato, on 10 November 2018 - 01:19 AM, said:

I say - keep the HEAT rounds inconsistent.  It’s unpredictable, and unpredictability is fun.

 

But - in compensation - undo the 15% alpha damage nerf they received a year ago.  Lets go back to the days when HEAT did the same damage as AP.

 

That makes for an interesting contrast between APCR and HEAT.  If you want reliable performance and ease of use, go with APCR.  If you want slightly higher penetration and higher damage, and are prepared to risk more failures to get that, go with HEAT.

 

HESH should do the same damage as now, but have a much higher chance of killing crew members.  Including a very small chance of killing ALL the crew members at once, and leaving the target unable to move, traverse or shoot.  (Same chance as an ammo rack.)

 

Don’t fire HE into open-topped turrets - you’ll hit the gun breech and do less damage for that reason.

 

Hahaha. No. Or rebalance so much of the game. Heat on derp pz4. Heat spam type62? And these are just off the top of my head. I will pass on your idea.

As for having Hesh have a chance to instantly remove the tank from play on any full pen, why? The game already is filled to the brim with rng. You can bounce AP on full gray flat plate. Dispersion roll, pen roll, damage roll. Rng crew skills like the max damage roll light tank skill.  We win and lose close games on those already. RNG seems plentiful enough.



Titus_Scato #9 Posted 10 November 2018 - 01:16 PM

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View Postminitelrose, on 10 November 2018 - 04:42 AM, said:

 

HESH wouldn’t work. It’s not how the physics work. HESH or HE after pen the primary armor open up in  a cone and only whatever is in that cone will be affected. U can amorack, but you can’t kill a crew member that isn’t in the trajectory that would be against the physics of the game. 

 

That, and a lot of open top tanks have been fixed. Before the HE would explode before reaching the primary armor, and would only splash. Now it was fixed by adding zero armor behind the crews (for exemple waffentrager, look it up on armor inspector) therefore as soon as ur shot goes into crew space it is counted full pen worth of dmg. I can’t tell if they fixed all open top tanks that way, but certainly  a few of them. 

 

Oh, OK.

Titus_Scato #10 Posted 10 November 2018 - 01:31 PM

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View PostJJSawry, on 10 November 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

 

Hahaha. No. Or rebalance so much of the game. Heat on derp pz4. Heat spam type62? And these are just off the top of my head. I will pass on your idea.

As for having Hesh have a chance to instantly remove the tank from play on any full pen, why? The game already is filled to the brim with rng. You can bounce AP on full gray flat plate. Dispersion roll, pen roll, damage roll. Rng crew skills like the max damage roll light tank skill.  We win and lose close games on those already. RNG seems plentiful enough.

 

Derp Panzer IV will no longer exist after Update 5.5 arrives, 10.5 cm gun is being removed.  Same as Hetzer and StuG III.

 

Type 62 is a problem, I admit - maybe double the cost of its HEAT shells, so at least HEAT spammers will lose credits?

 

 



minitelrose #11 Posted 10 November 2018 - 06:04 PM

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View PostTitus_Scato, on 10 November 2018 - 02:31 PM, said:

 

Derp Panzer IV will no longer exist after Update 5.5 arrives, 10.5 cm gun is being removed.  Same as Hetzer and StuG III.

 

Type 62 is a problem, I admit - maybe double the cost of its HEAT shells, so at least HEAT spammers will lose credits?

 

 

 

yeah I admit prammo nerf was a serious nerf to “untouchable premiums”.

in a good way.


Edited by minitelrose, 10 November 2018 - 06:04 PM.

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I want just that, and replay files.

 


no1_c_nt #12 Posted 10 November 2018 - 06:41 PM

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What’s more significant is the nerf to all types  of ammo that kicks in in when you win too much. You can compensate by tooning at the right times of day.....but play solo and it’ll catch up with you without fail!

Edited by no1_c_nt, 10 November 2018 - 06:41 PM.


Titus_Scato #13 Posted 10 November 2018 - 06:57 PM

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View Postminitelrose, on 10 November 2018 - 06:04 PM, said:

 

yeah I admit prammo nerf was a serious nerf to “untouchable premiums”.

in a good way.

 

In a good way?  Not for the Panther M10 it wasn’t!  Nor for any other premium with a low penetration gun (M4A2E4, T14, Excelsior, KV-220 etc).

minitelrose #14 Posted 10 November 2018 - 07:30 PM

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View PostTitus_Scato, on 10 November 2018 - 07:57 PM, said:

 

In a good way?  Not for the Panther M10 it wasn’t!  Nor for any other premium with a low penetration gun (M4A2E4, T14, Excelsior, KV-220 etc).

 

yup it didn’t work for all tanks, and my panther M10 (rip) has been awaiting for some love ever since. Tbh the nerf wasn’t only the alpha nerf, but it was the concomitant tier change, and the over buff of the entire tier7 and tidal arrival of all variants of IS-spam one after another, amongst other anger triggin events I have logged in the book.

 

(Some of) the other tanks you mention can rely on armor, and kv220 obviously was OP. 

 

Panther M10 is for me the main exemple of shame nerf.

There are many OP premium tanks I would like to see nerfed.

M10 wasn’t OP.


Edited by minitelrose, 10 November 2018 - 07:31 PM.

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I want just that, and replay files.

 


JJSawry #15 Posted 11 November 2018 - 09:54 AM

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View PostTitus_Scato, on 10 November 2018 - 01:31 PM, said:

 

Derp Panzer IV will no longer exist after Update 5.5 arrives, 10.5 cm gun is being removed.  Same as Hetzer and StuG III.

 

Type 62 is a problem, I admit - maybe double the cost of its HEAT shells, so at least HEAT spammers will lose credits?

 

 

 

Maybe decrease its heat pen first? Just wondering.

Titus_Scato #16 Posted 11 November 2018 - 10:34 AM

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View PostJJSawry, on 11 November 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

 

Maybe decrease its heat pen first? Just wondering.

 

That would be ideal, but won’t happen because that means nerfing a high tier premium tank.  Too controversial.

 

But doubling the cost of its prammo is something WG might be able to get away with, as the tank’s stats will not have changed.



JJSawry #17 Posted Yesterday, 10:59 AM

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View PostTitus_Scato, on 11 November 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

 

That would be ideal, but won’t happen because that means nerfing a high tier premium tank.  Too controversial.

 

But doubling the cost of its prammo is something WG might be able to get away with, as the tank’s stats will not have changed.

 

Knowing how wg does balance, it's way more likely they'd give every tanks in tier 6-8 extra 70mm of armor. Because WG balance always makes sense.

llo1 #18 Posted Yesterday, 06:38 PM

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View PostJJSawry, on 12 November 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

 

Knowing how wg does balance, it's way more likely they'd give every RUSSIAN tanks in tier 6-8 extra 70mm of armor. Because WG balance always makes sense.

 

Corrected it for you!
 
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no1_c_nt #19 Posted Yesterday, 07:28 PM

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Lots of bounces, ghost shots, and getting unduly spotted in new tank. No grace period at all, just rigged game after game. For the life of me I can’t understand why they do it in mad games...after all, they are irrelevant. Still...no need to switch accounts....no need to switch  tier....I’m grinding xp as we speak while writing this....makes no difference whether I win or not. What I am gaurenteed though is to get the xp by being afk every game.....and if I think it’s pointless playing, that’s what I’ll do.....easy Peazy ;)

no1_c_nt #20 Posted Yesterday, 07:30 PM

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Lol....I gave up halfway through, just logged back and still got highest damage....this is so fu ck ed up.






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