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Another view range question


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llo1 #1 Posted 18 May 2019 - 07:53 AM

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Guys (and gals) I have always had problems with the view range and the "auto spotting" that WG insist is a standard.

Today, I have taken screenshots of what I think is a problem that I see regularly, and yet no one else seems to think is a problem.

In the battle the last 2 reds were across the map from each other, I attacked one and the " lightbulb" showed when he spotted me. After he was destroyed, I was behind the rocks on the base, the last red was across the map, behind sandunes, with NO visible track to me, and he was highlighted by another green so there was NO WAY I could be spotted by him.

When the " lightbulb" says that I am no showing on the map, there is definitely no red writhing 280m of me, no line of sight, and yet the game says I am spotted!

HOW?

The only possible explanation is if the tank somehow can see me through sandunes and rocks, and a hell of a long distance!

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Mjr_Eazy #2 Posted 18 May 2019 - 08:07 AM

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Run the replay through mapinspector and you will see what happened...

Or post it here and others could have a look...

It would be even better if you could get the red to share his replay too...

I can’t tell anything from the screenshots...

but just cos you don’t see him doesn’t mean he can’t see you, we’ve had examples of that before where the bits of the tank that so the spotting are covered or pointing in the wrong direction or the other tank is out of your view range but you are in his...


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Cornish_Dyowl #3 Posted 18 May 2019 - 06:12 PM

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Lightbulb appears 3 seconds (or something like that) after you are spotted. Maybe he rolled up the dune and back down again before th lightbulb appeared?

 

Have a look at this if you haven’t already seen it. If you have, apologies.

 


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The_Mighty_Wombat #4 Posted 18 May 2019 - 06:59 PM

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Look at picture2.

He is in cap C, those rocks are about 50m behind him. He is not behind those rocks.

He is easily within distance to spot you when checked in map inspector.

All he had to do was roll up the dune enough for the spotting port on gun mantlet to make line of sight with your tanks “spotted points.”

You wont get the indicator until ~3s after your spotted, hes already moved by then.

All looks within possible mechanics.



filmin #5 Posted 18 May 2019 - 07:29 PM

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View PostThe_Mighty_Wombat, on 18 May 2019 - 06:59 PM, said:

Look at picture2.

He is in cap C, those rocks are about 50m behind him. He is not behind those rocks.

He is easily within distance to spot you when checked in map inspector.

All he had to do was roll up the dune enough for the spotting port on gun mantlet to make line of sight with your tanks “spotted points.”

You wont get the indicator until ~3s after your spotted, hes already moved by then.

All looks within possible mechanics.

I centrainly wanted to say that:great:


The community said: Give us new tanks Wargaming!!!!. The Wargaming said: Let's remove half of tanks from game to make noobs play comfortable. Result: Tanks got unbalancedTHAT'S THE LOGIC OF EARNING MONEY "TANKERS"

 


llo1 #6 Posted 18 May 2019 - 09:29 PM

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Thanks all the intentions /comments you made are certainly possible, and likely in hindsight......but whilst I am playin the game it just seems that yet again the system doesn't seem to work as supposed and specified by WG.

 

As to being in cap "C" .....I doubt  that, simply as there is no way that an IS can be hidden below the visible whilst in the cap. I was thinking that he was behind the rock. 

And don't forget the IS. viewpoint distance is quoted as 240m......and the distance is 294m away!

 


 
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Mjr_Eazy #7 Posted 19 May 2019 - 07:10 AM

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Crew skills, equipment and/or provisions improve that...

I have level 7 crew skills, 2 lots of condensed milk (1 for coffee, the other to make toffee) and improved optics equipped and mine says view-range is 271.2....

 

I would get another 7% (19m) if last tank standing, ie 290m...


Edited by Mjr_Eazy, 19 May 2019 - 07:21 AM.

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The_Mighty_Wombat #8 Posted 19 May 2019 - 08:04 AM

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View Postllo1, on 18 May 2019 - 10:29 PM, said:

Thanks all the intentions /comments you made are certainly possible, and likely in hindsight......but whilst I am playin the game it just seems that yet again the system doesn't seem to work as supposed and specified by WG.

 

As to being in cap "C" .....I doubt  that, simply as there is no way that an IS can be hidden below the visible whilst in the cap. I was thinking that he was behind the rock. 

And don't forget the IS. viewpoint distance is quoted as 240m......and the distance is 294m away!

 

 

Look at the mini map, his marker IS IN capC.

The dune at the front and rear of capc are within possible view range to spot you, he most likely went up the front one.

He will also have the last alive perk of increased view range.

The rocks are about 50m behind him, you show this as 294m. This means he's in the ~240m area and can have the ability to spot you.

 

I suggest you take a better look at the minimap during the replay, then drive that area in a training room.


Edited by The_Mighty_Wombat, 19 May 2019 - 08:06 AM.


Corpsetaker #9 Posted 19 May 2019 - 08:20 AM

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There is something wacky going on with the viewing. 

 

I had a VK 30.01 moving in a straight line. I shot him and did damage, while he was still moving he disappeared and then reappeared a second later still moving. 



Strummer54 #10 Posted 19 May 2019 - 08:46 AM

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Just had a game in obj 140, all reds were spotted, I could see leopard1 moving then he disappeared. He kept getting spotted, but was behind a rock. Then I got hit by him after I was watching the rock waiting for him to peep out but couldn’t see him. He was within my viewrange, I was stationary in a bush at 280 metres. He shouldn’t have been able to see me at that range with my camo. It gets a tad frustrating when the game mechanics aren’t reliable. We lost, reds were useless, but we were steamrollered. Nothing you can do really, just accept the inevitable.

Also bouncing around 90% of shots...and losing 90% of games....pretty fair correlation...lol

just had 3 shots in t49 on dead rail, the first was on e of the best shots I’ve made from across the map into e75, he was moving full speed across, I fired a leading shot which hit just as he turned straight into his rear, perfect, the next same tank again leading shot across the map, this time full in the side, the next was pretty boring, he was facing away from me stationary so a pretty easy shot into his rear. Just as expected though, none did any damage. 

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Edited by Strummer54, 19 May 2019 - 10:04 AM.

 

 


Mjr_Eazy #11 Posted 19 May 2019 - 10:15 AM

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If only there was a way to capture the battle and share it....

Oh well we’ll just have to take your word for it...

I’m sure that its more rigging against you ;)


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Strummer54 #12 Posted 19 May 2019 - 10:38 AM

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You couldn’t see anything...he was invisible, lol.

 

 


minitelrose #13 Posted 19 May 2019 - 11:45 AM

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View Postllo1, on 18 May 2019 - 08:53 AM, said:

Guys (and gals) I have always had problems with the view range and the "auto spotting" that WG insist is a standard.

Today, I have taken screenshots of what I think is a problem that I see regularly, and yet no one else seems to think is a problem.

In the battle the last 2 reds were across the map from each other, I attacked one and the " lightbulb" showed when he spotted me. After he was destroyed, I was behind the rocks on the base, the last red was across the map, behind sandunes, with NO visible track to me, and he was highlighted by another green so there was NO WAY I could be spotted by him.

When the " lightbulb" says that I am no showing on the map, there is definitely no red writhing 280m of me, no line of sight, and yet the game says I am spotted!

HOW?

The only possible explanation is if the tank somehow can see me through sandunes and rocks, and a hell of a long distance!

 

you need to ask the red team for their replays and compare with yours in map inspector. 

Usually i find a simple and logical answer, even though it wasn’t apparent at that time.

doing so repeatedly allows me to better use viewrange the next time I’m playing. 


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I want just that, and replay files.

 


The_Mighty_Wombat #14 Posted 19 May 2019 - 11:48 AM

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Strummer just because your looking at him doesn't mean his teammate hasn't spotted you, he can then shoot you from outside viewrange. Or if your stationary he can blind fire your location. I blind fire sniper spots all the time to make anyone hiding there move.

 

If anyone is serious about wanting to know what happened and a game mechanics breakdown then link replays.



minitelrose #15 Posted 19 May 2019 - 11:49 AM

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View PostCorpsetaker, on 19 May 2019 - 09:20 AM, said:

There is something wacky going on with the viewing. 

 

I had a VK 30.01 moving in a straight line. I shot him and did damage, while he was still moving he disappeared and then reappeared a second later still moving. 

 

Again like everyone else in this thread. It’s useless to relate any story without a replay.

and in the matter of viewrange, it’s much more advisable to also provide the replay from the red team.

 

i don’t see anything wrong in your story, by the way.

 


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"I want the game to be just how it was launched, no MM limitations for platoons, some unbalanced match once in a while, and friendly fire should come back as well. The only thing they should remove is statistics." -phony1907, 08 July 2016, 05:45pm - 

I want just that, and replay files.

 


llo1 #16 Posted 19 May 2019 - 01:57 PM

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View Postminitelrose, on 19 May 2019 - 11:49 AM, said:

 

Again like everyone else in this thread. It’s useless to relate any story without a replay.

and in the matter of viewrange, it’s much more advisable to also provide the replay from the red team.

 

i don’t see anything wrong in your story, by the way.

 

In principal I agree with you minitelrose, however as on numerous previous posts, the replay DOESNT show what happened, it shows what the server EXPECTS to happen.

There are so many problems between the underpowered WG servers and the multiple equipment players are using to contribute to the game that replays do not and cannot show what players see on moving tanks etc.

 

 

What I was commenting on, and by everyone's different take on what I said obviously not clearly explained by me originally, was how did the IS see me from where I was/he was, and the viewpoint mechanics.

There are differing interpretations of PARTS of the scenario, but for me the main problem was the interaction between him not being in the correct position to see me, (could have been lagged and therefore I didn't see him move into a viewing position), AND the distance where I thought he was (behind a rock beyond the cap point) unlike others who though he was in cap.

I am now going to have to rebuy an IS simply to go to the training rooms to check this map as I still am certain that he would be visible whilst in cap, and see me as well, and not visible whilst behind cap, and therefore couldn't see me.

 

Update: My assumption was wrong as to where the red IS was, after checking his location I find that The Might Wombat is ciporrect as to his actual location and alongside the cap he is actually 178m away and I am therefore within his view range....but as I didn't see him moving into the area where he could actually see me, and he is way beyond the "auto spotting range"  there is still the puzzle of HOW he actually spotted me.

This leaves me seriously lagged as I was watching him the whole time (and he was lit up by other players) and not once did he move towards the only place he could have spotted me. The assumption therefore is that the lag between him moving and returning, and the lightbulb indicating that he had spotted me was greater than 3 seconds......how are we supposed to contribute all our potential to the game when for some reason, and at certain undisclosed times, som of us are 3 or more seconds behind others?


Edited by llo1, 19 May 2019 - 02:37 PM.

 
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minitelrose #17 Posted 19 May 2019 - 05:39 PM

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View Postllo1, on 19 May 2019 - 02:57 PM, said:

In principal I agree with you minitelrose, however as on numerous previous posts, the replay DOESNT show what happened, it shows what the server EXPECTS to happen.

There are so many problems between the underpowered WG servers and the multiple equipment players are using to contribute to the game that replays do not and cannot show what players see on moving tanks etc.

 

 

What I was commenting on, and by everyone's different take on what I said obviously not clearly explained by me originally, was how did the IS see me from where I was/he was, and the viewpoint mechanics.

There are differing interpretations of PARTS of the scenario, but for me the main problem was the interaction between him not being in the correct position to see me, (could have been lagged and therefore I didn't see him move into a viewing position), AND the distance where I thought he was (behind a rock beyond the cap point) unlike others who though he was in cap.

I am now going to have to rebuy an IS simply to go to the training rooms to check this map as I still am certain that he would be visible whilst in cap, and see me as well, and not visible whilst behind cap, and therefore couldn't see me.

 

Update: My assumption was wrong as to where the red IS was, after checking his location I find that The Might Wombat is ciporrect as to his actual location and alongside the cap he is actually 178m away and I am therefore within his view range....but as I didn't see him moving into the area where he could actually see me, and he is way beyond the "auto spotting range"  there is still the puzzle of HOW he actually spotted me.

This leaves me seriously lagged as I was watching him the whole time (and he was lit up by other players) and not once did he move towards the only place he could have spotted me. The assumption therefore is that the lag between him moving and returning, and the lightbulb indicating that he had spotted me was greater than 3 seconds......how are we supposed to contribute all our potential to the game when for some reason, and at certain undisclosed times, som of us are 3 or more seconds behind others?

 

1

the server doesn’t expect anything, the server IS the game itself. Your device and game client is only a display and button pressing acquisition.

 

2

you have shown yourself the necessity of replays. You re-run the game a few times and mark where everything is. Especially it should be run in map inspector, which shows what info the server sent without any embellishment. The replay played in the game client is mostly cosmetics to create some visually pleasing cinematics. Sometimes they contradict, and only the server Side is right.

 

3

a lot of misunderstanding with the spotting mechanics come form the fact that we are informed 3s after we got spotted. Also, spotting is assymetrical even at short distances.

 

 Finally, yeah I think u commonly have big lag and micro losses issues. Nobody can help you there :/


Edited by minitelrose, 19 May 2019 - 05:42 PM.

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I want just that, and replay files.

 


llo1 #18 Posted 19 May 2019 - 07:36 PM

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Minitelrose.....true.....but over 3s lag......surely the data transfer snail should be better than that!
 
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The_Mighty_Wombat #19 Posted 19 May 2019 - 08:08 PM

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3s isnt lag, its designed that way. The lightbulb indicator is not instant. This is to catch out the cheeky scouts who camp too long.

So playing the roles you need to preempt being spotted and not react to being spotted, by the time you react its too late.

 

llo1 you have always had connection issues. So something between you and wg is causing errors.

Generally my connection at home is very good. I have a better connection then you and very rarely see what you complain of. Wg servers are not perfect but generally good enough.

When you make an input it goes to the server then the server returns that it accepted it and show the input in effect. This is why you do funky circles etc when lag spikes hit.

Either way a replay with your complaints is far more effective then screenshots. Usually my device records what it received, so if its records are different from yours then maybe there is lag/underpower in your device and its not keeping up.

 

If you want answers then please give us replays to analyse, there is multiple programs we can put it in to get asmuch info as possible to give the most likely correct answers. We dont care about poor gameplay etc. Even if you say the replay is not correct then give what you seen with the replay. 

 

 


Edited by The_Mighty_Wombat, 19 May 2019 - 08:10 PM.


llo1 #20 Posted 19 May 2019 - 09:36 PM

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Thanks Wombat, for the offer to examine the replay.

I do understand that a 3 second delay is built into The lightbulb, but for me to be watching the dole remaining red fir a period longer than 3seconds, and not seeing any movement into a position where he could spot me is lag.

 

If it was solely down to my equipment then surely it would be there all the time!

As it obviously isn't there continuously, then common sense says there is another reason for it. My results vary from semi Unicom to total noob halfway through some  battles, and the number of Aces I have Also seem to preclude constant lag, or total noob.....

As I often play at strange times and locations, and the problem doesn't seem to be always present, then this seems to preclude my equipment, my home wifi, my internet, my ISP (although bring my isp they are sometimes totally crap) the only intermittent constant is WG and their servers.....


 
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