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Premium tanks ruines the game!

premium tanks premium tanks pre op

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Mjr_Leicht #21 Posted 08 October 2019 - 07:34 AM

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View PostDumbApe, on 07 October 2019 - 11:08 PM, said:

PS. Please please please correct the spelling of ‘ruins’ in the thread title. It is triggering a bit of OCD :facepalm:


Oh I thought he was talking about runes but the chicken bones don’t work on premiums as they are protected by Stalin and he can’t predict what they do with his runes so they lose...

I’ve switched to slaughtering chickens* for my predictions.

 

* Virgin Brides doesn’t operate where I live ;)


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Replicant_2 #22 Posted 08 October 2019 - 08:42 AM

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View Postllo1, on 08 October 2019 - 06:48 AM, said:

 

As DumbApe says, you decide how you want to play the game....BUT the only way which I feel that choice is taken away from you, and being that this is a post about OP tanks, is when a toon of these OP/close to OP tanks is in the battle which you suddenly find yourself in!

IMO, toons of two of the same tanks, doesn't really matter if they are both regarded as OP as being in a toon is very likely to make them OP (drivers not taken into account), should NOT be allowed....

 

I have nothing against tooning per se, but these should be limited to twotanks that are different in play styles not just types. For example one light with one heavy..of one TD's with one light to spot.......simply so the toon has to really play together not simply overwhelm the game simply as they are OP or nearly OP being the two of same tank.

 

A good example of a well balanced toon is the Hell + Drac combo. One TD plus one Medium, ticks all your boxes.

Similarly a Smasher plus one of the above.

seriously though, every artificial limitation imposed on the game will have unintended consequences and can be exploited by the players.

Personally. I’d rather have less rules.


Edited by Replicant_2, 08 October 2019 - 08:53 AM.

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llo1 #23 Posted 08 October 2019 - 11:29 AM

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View PostReplicant_2, on 08 October 2019 - 08:42 AM, said:

 

A good example of a well balanced toon is the Hell + Drac combo. One TD plus one Medium, ticks all your boxes.

Similarly a Smasher plus one of the above.

seriously though, every artificial limitation imposed on the game will have unintended consequences and can be exploited by the players.

Personally. I’d rather have less rules.

A well balanced combo is all I would really hope for. I have not said two OP or so called OP tanks couldn't toon, just that they should not be the same tank, and this would stand for all toons whether classed as OP or not!

I am also guilty as I have been in toons ( not many I admit, as I generally don't find time to toon) where my partner has chosen one tank and the only one I have available is exactly the same tank as that is what I am either grinding/birthday or simply do not have another of the same tier left in my garage....not likely now as I have been refilling my garage since I originally sold them to progress!

Easy for WG to implement, simply make the tank unavailable to the second players once chosen in the garage.

I also would like less rules, but this is one rule I think should be enforced...



Replicant_2 #24 Posted 08 October 2019 - 11:50 AM

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Let’s agree to disagree then :)
I see your point and understand where you’re coming from but I just don’t recognise it as a major issue.
All toons aren’t made equal. I also toon very little and when I do it’s not much different from random games as So far I’ve only used chat to communicate.
The real difference is when toon mates set up a voice link or better yet, are in the same room and can communicate directly as this allows a level of coordination not achievable between randomly matched team mates. Sure, having strong tanks is an additional bonus but I’ve also seen toons of OP tanks go down like a stone thanks to poor team play.

Edited by Replicant_2, 08 October 2019 - 11:52 AM.

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stubbo66 #25 Posted 08 October 2019 - 12:57 PM

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There are just as tough tanks in the tech tree as there are premiums. Playstyle, battlefield awareness, map tactics, ammo selection, weak spot education all factor into how effective anyone is in the game.

 

For example, take the ISU-152, you do know you have a whopping great HE shell don't you? Just because AP doesn't pen, doesn't stop you from doing large amounts of splash damage.

 

Honestly though, these days it's as much about surviving your own team as it is the enemies, so many players (especially in meds and lights) charge off to the front lines to damage in a hail of shells in the first minute of the game. Coming back from that is the biggest issue I have at the moment.



Just_merpug #26 Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:23 AM

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View Poststubbo66, on 08 October 2019 - 12:57 PM, said:

There are just as tough tanks in the tech tree as there are premiums. Playstyle, battlefield awareness, map tactics, ammo selection, weak spot education all factor into how effective anyone is in the game.

 

For example, take the ISU-152, you do know you have a whopping great HE shell don't you? Just because AP doesn't pen, doesn't stop you from doing large amounts of splash damage.

 

Honestly though, these days it's as much about surviving your own team as it is the enemies, so many players (especially in meds and lights) charge off to the front lines to damage in a hail of shells in the first minute of the game. Coming back from that is the biggest issue I have at the moment.

Don't talk to me about players. Have a replay. These guys could have been tooned in the most OP tank in game and still failed: https://replays.woti...e5f0312181c8a57

 

 


Edited by Chairman_merpug, 09 October 2019 - 01:23 AM.

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Mjr_Eazy #27 Posted 09 October 2019 - 06:33 AM

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View PostChairman_merpug, on 09 October 2019 - 01:23 AM, said:

Don't talk to me about players. Have a replay. These guys could have been tooned in the most OP tank in game and still failed: https://replays.woti...e5f0312181c8a57

 

 


Oh my days, that was some team.

It was comedy tho watching red T29, he clearly lost it after you kept smacking him in turret and charged you.

Nice shooting!

I noticed you lined up the shot in sniper mode and switched back to normal before shooting, does that make a difference to accuracy?  As shots you fired like that hit the tiny spot on top, ones fired in sniper mode missed...


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llo1 #28 Posted 09 October 2019 - 06:44 AM

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View PostMjr_Eazy, on 09 October 2019 - 06:33 AM, said:


Oh my days, that was some team.

It was comedy tho watching red T29, he clearly lost it after you kept smacking him in turret and charged you.

Nice shooting!

I noticed you lined up the shot in sniper mode and switched back to normal before shooting, does that make a difference to accuracy?  As shots you fired like that hit the tiny spot on top, ones fired in sniper mode missed...


Interesting thought Mjr_Eazy.......I must admit that others have commented in the past about not using sniper mode whilst shooting on some occasions. But having tried it I can only say my occasions must have been the "wrong" ones.....I seem to miss by the proverbial mile!

If anyone can come up with a definite time and place for this I for one would be willing to try it again!



Just_merpug #29 Posted 09 October 2019 - 09:27 AM

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View PostMjr_Eazy, on 09 October 2019 - 06:33 AM, said:


Oh my days, that was some team.

It was comedy tho watching red T29, he clearly lost it after you kept smacking him in turret and charged you.

Nice shooting!

I noticed you lined up the shot in sniper mode and switched back to normal before shooting, does that make a difference to accuracy?  As shots you fired like that hit the tiny spot on top, ones fired in sniper mode missed...

It's possible. RNGsus loved me, that game. 


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jylpah #30 Posted 10 October 2019 - 06:27 PM

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View PostDumbApe, on 08 October 2019 - 01:06 AM, said:

The constant desire to balance everything is completely misguided IMO.

 

I beg to differ.

 

It is the imbalance that limits the practical tank choices we have. There can never be "perfect" balance and such an extreme state should be formulated as the desired state for proper balancing or used as counterargument for proper balancing.

 

There are clearly tanks that are clearly imbalanced - with a margin - but those are not many in numbers. Then there are plenty of tanks that are bit better than others, but in practical terms fall in a bucket "rather balanced". WG must stop adding / misbalancing tanks "off-the-charts" to keep the game enjoyable. That's enough. This does not mean that WG should even try to perfectly balance all the tanks in the "rather balanced" category.


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DumbApe #31 Posted 10 October 2019 - 07:24 PM

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View Postjylpah, on 10 October 2019 - 06:27 PM, said:

 

I beg to differ.

 

It is the imbalance that limits the practical tank choices we have. There can never be "perfect" balance and such an extreme state should be formulated as the desired state for proper balancing or used as counterargument for proper balancing.

 

There are clearly tanks that are clearly imbalanced - with a margin - but those are not many in numbers. Then there are plenty of tanks that are bit better than others, but in practical terms fall in a bucket "rather balanced". WG must stop adding / misbalancing tanks "off-the-charts" to keep the game enjoyable. That's enough. This does not mean that WG should even try to perfectly balance all the tanks in the "rather balanced" category.


I think that we might not be on the same page, but may be reading the same book, perhaps even in the same chapter. 

 

Balancing the scale of the game with variables in play is a virtually impossibility.  The spread of players abilities, the platforms they play, the variability in their actual performance game by game and the effect of chance combine to make it more than a little difficult.  Then throw in the different effects tank mix and toons can have and we see the scale of the problem.  I also think we need to be careful not to suggest or encourage too much in the way of 'engineering results' they more dabbling the further we'll get from equilibrium in the game.  

 

I didn't suggest that some balance in the game should not sought, but rather riled against the raging and whinging that goes on.  A while ago there was a thread that included discussion on what percentage of drivers thought they were 'good'.  We all judge our own performance in some way and for some, perhaps even a significant proportion of Blitz players, it is easy to say how unfair it is rather than invest time and effort into learning to play game better.  We also have a group of better players who forget that their higher skills still need players who can't play as well to beat ... then these folks insult and bemoan the very source of their success.  

 

Still I am just a dumb ape what do I know 


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jylpah #32 Posted 14 October 2019 - 06:59 PM

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Actually tank balancing is not that hard:

 

It is just statistics to compare performance of different tanks in the hands of equally skilled players. This is completely doable.

 

1) Pick your metrics

2) Define acceptable performance levels

3) Select the outliners against the 2)

4) Decide how to nerf a tank, the stats will tell how much

5) Implement the change and monitor the impact

6) Rinse & repeat


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DumbApe #33 Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:06 PM

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But you also need to reset historic data as this will provide an anchoring bias limiting the effectiveness of the monitoring ... ergo no stats  over a set period ie 30/60/90 or maybe the last major update + x days

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jylpah #34 Posted 16 October 2019 - 09:32 AM

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View PostDumbApe, on 15 October 2019 - 12:06 AM, said:

But you also need to reset historic data as this will provide an anchoring bias limiting the effectiveness of the monitoring ... ergo no stats  over a set period ie 30/60/90 or maybe the last major update + x days

 

Naturally one needs to monitor the _current_ performance, not the average performance between 2014-2019. But that is completely doable. Requires bit understanding of statistics, but it is not rocket science. Russia & Belarus have plenty excellent mathematicians and this is really not that hard since I can do it.


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