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Gold shells.

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Poll: Gold ammo / Prammo (37 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

Do you feel that gold ammo is overpowered?

  1. Yes (3 votes [8.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.11%

  2. No (33 votes [89.19%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 89.19%

  3. other (please put your opinion below) (1 vote [2.70%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.70%

Do you think that gold ammo should be removed / rebalanced?

  1. I think it should be removed (3 votes [7.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.50%

  2. I think it should be rebalanced (3 votes [7.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.50%

  3. I think it is just fine as it is (31 votes [77.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 77.50%

  4. other (please put your opinion below) (3 votes [7.50%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.50%

Vote Hide poll

shayne_w #1 Posted 08 December 2019 - 02:48 PM

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Ok, so I know this has probably been talked to death here on the forums, but I can't find any posts about it and I want to share my opinion.

 

Personally, I say that gold shells have no place in this game. There should be no substitute for skill. People can go out and buy a little gold, or fork out a bunch of credits, then manage to do far better than other players in a match, and I find that unfair. Gold ammo / Premium ammo tends to have far greater pen than other shell types, leading to people firing without aiming, but still penning. I think that gold ammo should either be limited to a certain number per tank, rebalanced to make it more fair, or just removed entirely. People who have been playing longer should not have an unfair advantage over newer players with lower credit stocks, or people who don't want to pay for items on a free game.

 

Repeated spam of gold shells gives people an unfair advantage over other players. It reduces the skill level of new players, who will find prem ammo and just religiously spam that so they don't have to aim for weak spots, then cry "OP TANK, UNFAIR" when they cant pen something due to not understanding the simple idea of aiming for a weaker part of a tank. If they only use credits for it, then their credit stock will go down at an alarming rate, causing them to find progressing extremely difficult.

 

Gold spam also reduces the fun in the game due to not being able to use the armour on tanks that actually have armour, and it makes people toxic in battle after they get hit by gold shells. I will admit to being relatively rude towards gold shell users because it simply makes me angry when someone who is not aiming at any weak spot is able to easily pen my tank when I should be able to shrug off their shell from the front of my tank with ease. There is nothing more frustrating than rushing an enemy who you expect to bounce, who you KNOW will bounce, only to hear "sss" when their shell hits you and deals damage, after they fire a shot right into your upper plate with no thought whatsoever.

 

To be clear, I am not talking about driving weak tanks with no armour where someone easily pens with standard ammo which lower ability players mistake for gold, I'm talking about more heavily armoured tanks, eg heavies, or stuff like the T28 and T95, where people will just thrust their hands into their pockets and throw money at you without aiming for weak spots or getting round your side to fire into the weaker armour.

 

Personally, I think that gold shells should be nerfed harder with some sort of real drawback to using gold over standard ammo, eg half the damage of standard ammo, or ~25% longer reload time after firing a gold shell. Either that, or they should be removed entirely.

 

I also believe gold shell spam should be classed under "unsporting conduct", as people that spam gold know full well that they are gaining an unfair advantage over other players, because it stops the armour of well armoured tanks being effective. To be clear, I don't mind 1 or 2 gold shells being fired from an enemy tank. That is fair. But when someone fires gold every shell in the round? That is where I feel that gold ammo needs the nerf. Something needs to be done to stop pay to win players repeatedly getting better results than free to play players, because currently the game just isn't fun, thanks to an increasing number of gold spammers. There would likely be far more players staying on the game for far longer, if gold ammo was made fair.

 

 

 

I'd like to hear other peoples opinions on gold in the comments below, and I know I'll probably get a lot of hate for this post. But I feel that gold ammo seriously needs to be balanced.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read.

-Shayne.


Edited by shaynew, 08 December 2019 - 02:51 PM.

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https://www.blitzsta...yer/eu/shayne_w Not a "good" player by anyone's standards, but I like to think that I'm above average.


Pururut #2 Posted 08 December 2019 - 03:34 PM

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Can you define skill please? Is skill not obtained by playing the game and analyzing it through the sources associated with it? Isnt the time investment required for building skill determined by socioeconomic status? Can an individual beset by poverty and uncertainty absorb the ingame material at the same rate as a prosperous one? If the notion of skill you so naively put up as the absolute phenomenon is afflicted so severely by unfairness in the first place, how will limiting or eradicating the symptoms are going to cure the disease? 
Bun bun

efoster29 #3 Posted 08 December 2019 - 03:47 PM

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Been accused of using Gold by other players even when I have not, do carry some but only use if necessary (which is rare).

Mjr_Eazy #4 Posted 08 December 2019 - 04:29 PM

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Its part of the game, use it or don’t use it, your choice.

If you think the problem with the game is prammo then I’d love to play that game!

Simple solution to your noob out charge, make a mental note that red may have prammo so don’t rush in...


547146227.png

 


RicketyOldTank #5 Posted 08 December 2019 - 05:18 PM

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I feel the ammunition balance is fine as it is. I see no sense in spamming premium ammo, when a standard shell would get the job done, with more damage done. Anyone spamming premium would be doing cumulatively less damage than they would be doing if using normal ammo.

 

The variety of shells is simply there as having the right tool for the job. If I don't see red, AP. If I see red, APCR or HEAT. If a see a side, a butt or an AMX, High Explosive.



O_o__O_o__O_o #6 Posted 08 December 2019 - 06:37 PM

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I dont have any gold ammo what is that ? 

i use 3 different shells on my tanks all bought with credits and i use them differently depends of the target

if you dont use your higher pen shell its your own mistake because its part of the game

also buying ammo with gold is big mistake but sure if you have a lot why not i dont see any problem since everyone can buy and use it :)

usually if you are not 65-70% unicum not using higher pen shell reduce your chances to win the game

also premium account is very cheap and will bring you extra credits to cover the cost ( even if you cant afford to buy it they are ways to earn some money and get premium every month for free )

dont forget also that if you know how to play the game and someone is spamming heat for example just show them your tracks or spaced armor:)

 

no hate but i dont understand what is the problem of using different shells just try to pen front of maus,e100,is4 and other super heavies with something like bc without using them :) (i know you dont need to face them but sometimes you cant avoid it and instead of taking 300hp from them you take 0)

to me bigger problem is consumables and crew skills

i have maxed mine and if i meet someone with level 1-2-3 i can spot and take half their hp before they even see me

 

lets say they removed it then all battles will become same and not interesting

first 3minutes meds will either camp or run around like headless chickens

then they will die in a minute or two

and last few minutes heavies will bounce almost every shot and result will be probably a draw

of course some game you will get skilled player who will manage to win in the last few seconds


Edited by O_o__O_o__O_o, 08 December 2019 - 06:43 PM.


llo1 #7 Posted 08 December 2019 - 06:44 PM

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No, prammo seems ok, the only option I would like to see implemented is the number of Prammo shells in every tank being limited.

ie possibly no more to be carried than 10% of the normal AP loaded into each tank. So a tank with 100 shell capacity couldn't carry More than 10, and if the same 100 shell capacity also contains 20 HE, then the number of prammo should then be limited to 8 then!


Edited by llo1, 08 December 2019 - 08:42 PM.


gallabru #8 Posted 08 December 2019 - 06:57 PM

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As soon as some OP premium tanks will be removed or nerfed I will reconsider my answer.
For the time being, they are part of the game. Better pen to the cost of lower damage and higher pen loss with distance, more expensive. In most cases they still require aiming.

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TKoT_2017 #9 Posted 08 December 2019 - 07:23 PM

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The only tank I play occasionally and face often that has overpowered gold shells is the SU100Y. Extra pen and extra damage.

O_o__O_o__O_o #10 Posted 08 December 2019 - 08:58 PM

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not really because on that one premium ammo does more damage but less pen

Chairman_merpug #11 Posted 08 December 2019 - 11:08 PM

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Well, as a player of low-pen tanks by preference, I like the ability to use prammo occasionally. Not often, mind, and I've never spent gold on it.

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jonty_2014 #12 Posted 08 December 2019 - 11:31 PM

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Skill rounds are:

A) optional

And

B) available to everyone

What’s the problem ?

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minitelrose #13 Posted 09 December 2019 - 12:06 AM

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Welcome to the forums, and yes it has been discussed to death. 
The poll is very clear.

 

With pramo you will have increased pen at the expense of damage output, it’s a trade of that you need to think about during battle, for every single shot. This is a layer of thinking that adds to all the other bits you need to consider, The complexity of the choices and the trade offs are what makes the game good : the best choice Changes all the time. . 
 

in the old days pramo was needed for +-2 MM. 

Pramo and normal were same damage, just difference of pen power, 

therefore wallet warriors could just spam it, and push through the enemies to victory

 

nowadays the credits are no longer an issue, if you play well enough,

so anyone has access to large amount of prammo. 


the game overall has softened by a tremendous amount,

but the ammo choices are well balanced

if you spam pramo the smart guy will aim AP where needed and will kill you first. 
and same for HE. increase output, but even less pen requiring even more skills to craft a shot. 

prammo is still necessary to get over some upper tiers.

 

but believe me I’m a HE addict, sometimes shooting majority of HE, up to 15 per game. 

 

its a nice balance,

 


Read my guides there

"I want the game to be just how it was launched, no MM limitations for platoons, some unbalanced match once in a while, and friendly fire should come back as well. The only thing they should remove is statistics." -phony1907, 08 July 2016, 05:45pm - 

I want just that, and replay files.

 


llo1 #14 Posted 09 December 2019 - 01:24 PM

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Contrary to Minitelrose, I rarely spam HE....just on certain tanks...and then I agree with him, the fun is good!

But again I rarely use prammo, again just on some tanks that cannot perform within the tier that they have been allocated by WG.



Titus_Scato #15 Posted 09 December 2019 - 04:22 PM

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I would just like to draw your attention to the curious case of the Pz.Kpfw. II Ausf. J.  (A Tier 3 Panzer II with heavy tank armour.)

 

AP penetration - 23 mm.

 

Yeah.  23.

 

It has to fire gold ammo - and NOTHING ELSE BUT gold ammo - or it won't penetrate anything at all (except an Alecto).



Buckleyteer2 #16 Posted 09 December 2019 - 04:26 PM

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Hence I do not have it anymore.

Titus_Scato #17 Posted 09 December 2019 - 04:34 PM

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View PostBuckleyteer2, on 09 December 2019 - 04:26 PM, said:

Hence I do not have it anymore.

 

Which was WG's hope after 5.5



Duggage_Hu #18 Posted 12 December 2019 - 11:21 PM

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I think that special ammunition has a place in the game, just like it had a place on the battlefield—and for the same reasons. Sometimes in your pea-shooter you run into Godzilla (eschews matchmaking discussion here) and you need that something extra to even make a dent in a desperate situation. I speak as a player who grinds tiers, not lines, currently at Tiers 5 and 6. What else can I do in my Crusader against a tier-6 heavy tank?

I also think that the number of APCR (or other special) shells that a tank can carry should be limited, just as they were on the real battlefield. A simple suggestion would be a maximum percentage of capacity, something like 15%. That's what, one in every seven?

Happy tanking!

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minitelrose #19 Posted 13 December 2019 - 08:43 AM

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View PostDuggage_Hu, on 13 December 2019 - 12:21 AM, said:

I think that special ammunition has a place in the game, just like it had a place on the battlefield—and for the same reasons. Sometimes in your pea-shooter you run into Godzilla (eschews matchmaking discussion here) and you need that something extra to even make a dent in a desperate situation. I speak as a player who grinds tiers, not lines, currently at Tiers 5 and 6. What else can I do in my Crusader against a tier-6 heavy tank?

I also think that the number of APCR (or other special) shells that a tank can carry should be limited, just as they were on the real battlefield. A simple suggestion would be a maximum percentage of capacity, something like 15%. That's what, one in every seven?

Happy tanking!

---Duggage_Hu [ALBAB]


if you think a little bit about this, the number of prammo is already limited.

 — it’s limited by the amount of credits it costs, on certain tanks it might be half a million credit to load only prammo, but that’s not even the main issue.

 — it is limited but the damage it makes.
 

If you can pen all with prammo you will do 25% less damage than if you did all with regular. 
If I lose a game it is because I haven’t done enough damage by the time everyone is dead (the other option being counter reaches 100 or 1000 with people alive, it’s quite rare).

so the output of damage per time is crucial, and I can’t reload faster. Therefore my only way to one more is to chose regular over prammo, except when there is no  choice. To be able to shoot regular you need to know your tank and the enemy, and attack him or receive him from an angle that will allow you to make damage (hence the expression “crafting a shot”;).


and this is what good players do. limiting the amount of prammo you ca carry will not make anyone win less, it will have no impact on the game. On th either hand it will have a severe impact on a few tanks that have very bad regular ammo and rely on prammo (like is-6 with legacy gun, or some light tanks), or very funny premium ammo ( for exemple HESH, à premium ammo that has less pen than regular).

 

i hope I make sense. 
 

limiting the number of shell is a bad idea. People discussed limiting prammo for a very long time, and WG limiting the damage of APCR and heat ammo was the best possible choice.
 


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"I want the game to be just how it was launched, no MM limitations for platoons, some unbalanced match once in a while, and friendly fire should come back as well. The only thing they should remove is statistics." -phony1907, 08 July 2016, 05:45pm - 

I want just that, and replay files.

 


llo1 #20 Posted 14 December 2019 - 04:50 PM

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Minitelrose, whilst I agree with your comments, it is only up to a point!

Having unlimited prammo simply passes the onus onto those who pay to win!

I know you will say that it is already reduced, being lower dmg, BUT if you can afford to use unlimited prammo you are simply removing the necessity to actually learn about the tanks, where to shoot, when to move to get a better place to shoot etc.

IF the actual number was limited by load size you could still have the improved pen, but you would STILL have to learn about the tanks simply as the prammo will only provide a limited improvement and not simply an improvement in pen for those who spam money 







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