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Remove Sheridan and T92E1 at rating battles and nerf them!

Sheridan T92E1 ATGMS Rating Battles Nerf Armor Nerf Mobility Nerf Spring Season IS-6 Fearless IS-6

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Poll: ATGM Tanks (48 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battle in order to participate this poll.

What do you think about ATGM tanks unable to play at rating battles?

  1. I want rating battles with ATGM tanks (17 votes [34.69%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 34.69%

  2. I want rating battles without ATGM tanks (32 votes [65.31%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 65.31%

What do you want about ATGM tanks feature?

  1. Remove the ATGM cannon and make it similar at WOT PC version! (26 votes [46.43%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 46.43%

  2. Nerf their armor and mobility! (19 votes [33.93%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.93%

  3. Everything is ok, i want to see them like this form! (11 votes [19.64%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.64%

Vote Hide poll

Mjr_Eazy #41 Posted 10 April 2020 - 10:54 PM

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View PostEndToast_LOCA, on 10 April 2020 - 06:38 PM, said:

Mjr, I feel like you are not ready to accept others opinion, please state some arguments or add something valuable to this topic. Anyway, of course those tanks seem balanced when you take stats of all players that have ever tried it, but I think that the author is talking specifically about ratings especially at around 5k and more. It is indeed balanced when you play tier 8 or lower and you meet them once in a while Mjr ))

That's the thing with opinions, they're opinions, why would I accept it if I disagree with it????

But if WG's opinion is they are OP and need a nerf then I'll accept it, it's their game, they can do what they like or I'll play something else, I won't whine about it though...

 

Ratings at 4.5k+ are irrelevant, it's what?  0.01% of the player base, why remove these tanks from ratings for everyone cos some whining Unicum cries about them...

 

Ofc my opinion is not valuable cos you don't agree with its, pffffff t'internet....

I play lots of tier ix and see them loads, they're not as strong as you cry babies want us to believe....

 

End_toast, I feel like your stats massively improved for some reason when you became a moderator, please state some arguments or add something of value to explain how that happened....

 

Oh and how about you actually stop being a self important, righteous t......

oh never gonna happen is it..

You are what you are....

 


Edited by Mjr_Eazy, 11 April 2020 - 09:40 AM.

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Endtastic #42 Posted 11 April 2020 - 01:36 PM

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View PostMjr_Eazy, on 10 April 2020 - 11:54 PM, said:

That's the thing with opinions, they're opinions, why would I accept it if I disagree with it????

But if WG's opinion is they are OP and need a nerf then I'll accept it, it's their game, they can do what they like or I'll play something else, I won't whine about it though...

 

Ratings at 4.5k+ are irrelevant, it's what?  0.01% of the player base, why remove these tanks from ratings for everyone cos some whining Unicum cries about them...

 

Ofc my opinion is not valuable cos you don't agree with its, pffffff t'internet....

I play lots of tier ix and see them loads, they're not as strong as you cry babies want us to believe....

 

End_toast, I feel like your stats massively improved for some reason when you became a moderator, please state some arguments or add something of value to explain how that happened....

 

Oh and how about you actually stop being a self important, righteous t......

oh never gonna happen is it..

You are what you are....

 

I actually laughed at your post, thank you. You, who replies to every topic even when has nothing to add and you ask to explain why I play the way I play? :D I am going to pretend I did not see those last lines as that is your typical response, post some songs or use your 2 slangs in latin. Now to the topic, I think that those tanks are broken, even WG limited the number of lights in ratings to only 2 in each team. That is the same as admitting their own mistake. So balanced yes:

 


Edited by EndToast_LOCA, 11 April 2020 - 02:55 PM.


jylpah #43 Posted 11 April 2020 - 05:57 PM

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View PostEndToast_LOCA, on 11 April 2020 - 03:36 PM, said:

I actually laughed at your post, thank you. You, who replies to every topic even when has nothing to add and you ask to explain why I play the way I play? :D I am going to pretend I did not see those last lines as that is your typical response, post some songs or use your 2 slangs in latin. Now to the topic, I think that those tanks are broken, even WG limited the number of lights in ratings to only 2 in each team. That is the same as admitting their own mistake. So balanced yes:

 

 

Hi Toast and apologies for winning a rating game in T92E1 against your team yesterday. I hope this experience does not impact the effectiveness of my counterargument to you :confused:

 

First, I want to keep the debate civil (little banter does not count). Secondly, you quote a data point from WG that is technically 100% correct, but at the same time more than "Damned lies" in sense of the old saying of Lies and Statistics. Please let me explain why.

 

WG's methodology is to take 55-65% players (at a tier or global stats, they do not tell) and check average damage and WR. While this statistics is easy to calculate, it does not take in consideration differences in player population among those 55-65% players. What if some tank has only 60-65% players playing it and other tank has only 55-60% players playing it. If the tanks were perfectly balanced to each other, the statistic should show 5% WR difference making one of the tanks look "OP" and the another to seem under-powered.

 

"Whatever, but this does not happen in practice, right?"

 

Yes it does.

 

BlitzStars' Tank Compare's RELATIVE WR  is the best tool for the players to assess same tier tanks' relative performance. And from the stats you can see (the "Bell Curve” ) how T92E1 is clearly played by better players on average than the other tanks. This is enough to explain the difference to Standard B that is equally competitive (and perfectly balanced) to T92E1. The AMX 30 1er proto is actually better tank than T92E1 according to BlitzStars, but since the T92E1 players are better than the AMX's, the WG's faulty statistics shows wrong results.

 

 

I have argued about this with WG devs, but it seems statistics is not their strong point.

 

 


Edited by jylpah, 11 April 2020 - 06:15 PM.

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BaronVeyer #44 Posted 11 April 2020 - 08:13 PM

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Rating Battles are a joke anyway. 

Mjr_Eazy #45 Posted 12 April 2020 - 01:45 AM

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View PostEndToast_LOCA, on 11 April 2020 - 01:36 PM, said:

you ask to explain why I play the way I play

 Lol, nope, I ask you to explain how ur stats suddenly improved massively when you became a moderator...


As Jylpah points out the WG approach is flawed and the blitzstars data is a better way to look at the stats but at the end of the day WG use their method and are nerfing the tier ix, maybe that will dry up all the tears...

 

You’ve added nothing to the original topic about removing them from ratings battles or do you think cos of that data from WG they should be removed from Ratings battles as the OP wants?


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llo1 #46 Posted 12 April 2020 - 08:23 AM

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Slightly ignoring the OP (original post...not the tank), if WG had NEVER altered the system to promote noobs to top tiers without gaining the necessary experience, then this whole argument would not be needed.......

However, WG have messed up the system massively, so what makes you think WG are even going to remove the missile tanks, missiles - or any other tank from the rating system, even though Rating themselves are also totally broken as well?

That would be an admission that they have wrecked it with their ideas and money grabbing ways....never going to happen.....

 

Now “slight tweaks” using the so called review system that they use, can and will be used to change things (slightly maybe), but again just because someone wants the tanks removed from Rating....again never going to happen.

 

Accept it, rage at it, hate it, don’t play rating, or leave.....all your choice!



Endtastic #47 Posted 12 April 2020 - 10:44 AM

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View Postjylpah, on 11 April 2020 - 06:57 PM, said:

 

Hi Toast and apologies for winning a rating game in T92E1 against your team yesterday. I hope this experience does not impact the effectiveness of my counterargument to you :confused:

 

First, I want to keep the debate civil (little banter does not count). Secondly, you quote a data point from WG that is technically 100% correct, but at the same time more than "Damned lies" in sense of the old saying of Lies and Statistics. Please let me explain why.

 

WG's methodology is to take 55-65% players (at a tier or global stats, they do not tell) and check average damage and WR. While this statistics is easy to calculate, it does not take in consideration differences in player population among those 55-65% players. What if some tank has only 60-65% players playing it and other tank has only 55-60% players playing it. If the tanks were perfectly balanced to each other, the statistic should show 5% WR difference making one of the tanks look "OP" and the another to seem under-powered.

 

"Whatever, but this does not happen in practice, right?"

 

Yes it does.

 

BlitzStars' Tank Compare's RELATIVE WR  is the best tool for the players to assess same tier tanks' relative performance. And from the stats you can see (the "Bell Curve” ) how T92E1 is clearly played by better players on average than the other tanks. This is enough to explain the difference to Standard B that is equally competitive (and perfectly balanced) to T92E1. The AMX 30 1er proto is actually better tank than T92E1 according to BlitzStars, but since the T92E1 players are better than the AMX's, the WG's faulty statistics shows wrong results.

 

 

I have argued about this with WG devs, but it seems statistics is not their strong point.

 

 

Thanks for the lecture. My point is still the same, this game was built around certain mechanics like sidescraping, hulldown etc. What makes those tanks is OP is that they both carry a feature that simply, let me put it this way, does not care whether you have tons of armour on your turret or whether you are hidden behind a hill. This whole mechanics is negotiating that and if you think that is fine, well, I guess I will leave this in my pointless discussions folder.

 

View PostMjr_Eazy, on 12 April 2020 - 02:45 AM, said:

 Lol, nope, I ask you to explain how ur stats suddenly improved massively when you became a moderator...


As Jylpah points out the WG approach is flawed and the blitzstars data is a better way to look at the stats but at the end of the day WG use their method and are nerfing the tier ix, maybe that will dry up all the tears...

 

You’ve added nothing to the original topic about removing them from ratings battles or do you think cos of that data from WG they should be removed from Ratings battles as the OP wants?

I have nothing to explain, I was noobie and slowly realised what I had been doing wrong. Some people can actually improve, you know "Mjr" :) But of course, I am currently using the moderators bundle, which grants you unlimited HP and makes you win more in an online game :D:D

 

P.S: Do you sometimes read aloud what are you asking? :D


 

jylpah #48 Posted 12 April 2020 - 11:32 AM

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View PostEndToast_LOCA, on 12 April 2020 - 12:44 PM, said:

Thanks for the lecture. My point is still the same, this game was built around certain mechanics like sidescraping, hulldown etc. What makes those tanks is OP is that they both carry a feature that simply, let me put it this way, does not care whether you have tons of armour on your turret or whether you are hidden behind a hill. This whole mechanics is negotiating that and if you think that is fine, well, I guess I will leave this in my pointless discussions folder.

 

I agree that the ATGM does change the old traditional mechanism, but that argument can be extended to autoloaders, autoreloaders, HESH and so on. 
 

As long as the ATGM mechanic does not dominate the game, I am OK for the change, but if it would become so that players would really learn how to use the missiles and the would really start to dictate the game results, I would vote for removing those from the game. So far, I find them interesting, fresh, but not so useful (I suck with the  missiles). As a reference, I would never accept WOT arty in Blitz. 
 

We are all entitled to have an opinion about the topic, I am not trying to force mine to you. Just wanted to correct the misconception that the missiles would somehow how make the tanks OP. 

 

 


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Endtastic #49 Posted 12 April 2020 - 12:03 PM

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View Postjylpah, on 12 April 2020 - 12:32 PM, said:

 

I agree that the ATGM does change the old traditional mechanism, but that argument can be extended to autoloaders, autoreloaders, HESH and so on. 
 

As long as the ATGM mechanic does not dominate the game, I am OK for the change, but if it would become so that players would really learn how to use the missiles and the would really start to dictate the game results, I would vote for removing those from the game. So far, I find them interesting, fresh, but not so useful (I suck with the  missiles). As a reference, I would never accept WOT arty in Blitz. 
 

We are all entitled to have an opinion about the topic, I am not trying to force mine to you. Just wanted to correct the misconception that the missiles would somehow how make the tanks OP. 

 

 

How can you compare autoloader to ATGM? Makes zero sense to me, with 50B or Progetto I cannot shoot you over hill or when you are hiding. If you think that this is absolutely fine, then...



Mjr_Eazy #50 Posted 12 April 2020 - 12:20 PM

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How many times have you actually been shot over a hill or round a corner?

In my 200 battles in tier ix and x on both accounts in last 30 days, where I see at least 1 nearly every battle and have seen 3 such shots out of hundreds of missiles fired - most miss or you can bounce / eat them with ur tracks. The missiles are irrelevant they are not game changing...

 

But just an opinion and pointless, WG will nerf them if they think they are OP,  not cos of any opinions here... so I agree it’s a pointless discussion :teethhappy:

 


Edited by Mjr_Eazy, 12 April 2020 - 12:50 PM.

547146227.png

 


jylpah #51 Posted 12 April 2020 - 01:06 PM

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View PostEndToast_LOCA, on 12 April 2020 - 02:03 PM, said:

How can you compare autoloader to ATGM? Makes zero sense to me, with 50B or Progetto I cannot shoot you over hill or when you are hiding. If you think that this is absolutely fine, then...


Well, How can a tank do 1200 dmg just in 5 secs? How can a tank eat 400 dmg out of a hull-down IS-7? The argument is very similar.


I am fine with the ATGMs shooting me over the hill at the moment. It rarely happens. I don’t think I got hit by an missile more than once last week, so this really isn’t an issue for me. I get your point and appreciate your view. My position might change someday if the ATGM skill level of players skyrockets. Meanwhile, let’s just agree to disagree. 

 

No, I am not "fine" with the ATGMs anymore :rolleyes:

 

 


Edited by jylpah, 17 May 2020 - 08:50 PM.

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ImATomatoUMU #52 Posted 17 May 2020 - 08:21 PM

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I think they ARE OP because they don't really fit into any category, i mean, you can flank (fairly easily), ricochet (unfairly too much easily), fire behind obstacles (which i did many times and it's very easy to do it[and i'm a mobile player] when the enemy team focuses you, the people who thinks it's not OP are obviously the ones who has it and plays it very often just like any other griefers (at least most of the damn time), and before these things came in, literally every player complained about them and begged to wargaming not to bring them, wargaming said "oH bUt Itz HaRd t0 uEs MizSilEz" and it's only as hard as eating an ice cream which nearly doesn't needs any intelligence at all in the end lmao.

 

Oh btw, the reason some of you gets rarely attacked by missiles is because firstly there's 6 other allies secondly most of the players doesn't buys premium ammo no matter if it's a missile or not and that's also why i get ricochets even in my VK 30.01 D, it seems like those who defends this mechanism rarely gets enemies that has brain, i wonder what would their results be against a team filled with an average player like me lol. :D


Edited by AudraSvyatoya, 17 May 2020 - 08:46 PM.

July ~ September 2019 had the best RNG (literally none), change my mind.

Mjr_Eazy #53 Posted 17 May 2020 - 10:33 PM

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View PostAudraSvyatoya, on 17 May 2020 - 08:21 PM, said:

I think they ARE OP because they don't really fit into any category, i mean, you can flank (fairly easily), ricochet (unfairly too much easily), fire behind obstacles (which i did many times and it's very easy to do it[and i'm a mobile player] when the enemy team focuses you, the people who thinks it's not OP are obviously the ones who has it and plays it very often just like any other griefers (at least most of the damn time), and before these things came in, literally every player complained about them and begged to wargaming not to bring them, wargaming said "oH bUt Itz HaRd t0 uEs MizSilEz" and it's only as hard as eating an ice cream which nearly doesn't needs any intelligence at all in the end lmao.

 

Oh btw, the reason some of you gets rarely attacked by missiles is because firstly there's 6 other allies secondly most of the players doesn't buys premium ammo no matter if it's a missile or not and that's also why i get ricochets even in my VK 30.01 D, it seems like those who defends this mechanism rarely gets enemies that has brain, i wonder what would their results be against a team filled with an average player like me lol. :D


Hehehehehe I wish, I have bad stats in T92 I keep getting tier 10 battles against decent players...

I still think people are confusing two different things - the OP’ness of them as light tanks vs the missiles...

I agree they are OP as tanks, especially the T92, the nerf in 6.10 has not made any difference as far as I can tell.

Just totally disagree the missiles are that big a problem, if you get hit behind an obstacle then shame on you for sitting still and not moving to bounce it, I’ve still never been hit over a hill when 1 vs 1 as supposedly happens all the time to everyone else...

If it happens post a replay...

You all must have 100’s maybe 1000’s of replays of supposedly OP missiles...

:popcorn:


547146227.png

 


Rqh #54 Posted 17 May 2020 - 11:26 PM

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i thought rating stats dont count

Endtastic #55 Posted 18 May 2020 - 06:17 AM

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View PostRqh, on 18 May 2020 - 12:26 AM, said:

i thought rating stats dont count

They do not, only in game though. You can check the average XP, kills etc



llo1 #56 Posted 18 May 2020 - 07:32 AM

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View PostMjr_Eazy, on 17 May 2020 - 10:33 PM, said:


Hehehehehe I wish, I have bad stats in T92 I keep getting tier 10 battles against decent players...

I still think people are confusing two different things - the OP’ness of them as light tanks vs the missiles...

I agree they are OP as tanks, especially the T92, the nerf in 6.10 has not made any difference as far as I can tell.

Just totally disagree the missiles are that big a problem, if you get hit behind an obstacle then shame on you for sitting still and not moving to bounce it, I’ve still never been hit over a hill when 1 vs 1 as supposedly happens all the time to everyone else...

If it happens post a replay...

You all must have 100’s maybe 1000’s of replays of supposedly OP missiles...

:popcorn:


Whilst I agree with certain conclusions you make, I really think the recent nerf HAS made a difference.

Maybe not as much as some people hope, but like you I have poor stats in the T92, but in my games since the nerf, I have regularly had lots of shots do nothing...sometimes as many a 5 shots per game simply don’t pen, don’t do anything .....and that is NOT the missiles!



I_C4NT_W1N_ #57 Posted 18 May 2020 - 08:17 AM

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I get that in the Sherri...Hits are amiss and in all fairness if you are not a fairly decent player and an average player like me then peeps are not going to get the full potential it could have in the right hands.

Mjr_Eazy #58 Posted 18 May 2020 - 09:12 AM

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View PostBuckleyteer2, on 18 May 2020 - 08:17 AM, said:

I get that in the Sherri...Hits are amiss and in all fairness if you are not a fairly decent player and an average player like me then peeps are not going to get the full potential it could have in the right hands.


yeah, it’s like any stronk tenk, good players will make it sing, came across one Sheridan the other day who was brilliant in his, didn’t stop me taking my usual spotting position on the hill in the middle of Yamaoto and peek over, he was top scorer on red but we rekt them and won...

 

Also came across one Sheridan from LOCA on reds, we had LOCA player in Obj 140 our team, they didn’t shoot each other even when obvs target so could take some very risky positions and it ended up 1 vs 1 with them two and our Obj won, couldn’t say it was cheating really but did feel unsporting and in that scenario when it was me + our obj 2 vs 1 on Sheridan and our obj let me get rekt it felt OP but he wasn’t using missiles as I ate the 1st two he shot at me so he switched ammo...


547146227.png

 


romsitsa #59 Posted 18 May 2020 - 09:33 AM

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Try to remember why and how the T49 was nerfed. The T92 has the same problem and it’s not the rocket.

 

A



I_C4NT_W1N_ #60 Posted 18 May 2020 - 09:46 AM

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Yes the LOCA were out in force yesterday we got steam rolled by an OBJ140 and cant remember what the other platoon guy was in but they were both 70+ WR players. Seeing that you might as well go and have a cuppa and let them do but I did think.. As much as we lose it must get boring winning all the time.




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